tipican primer zenske spisateljice koja kroz sve moguce psiholosko-senzualne (zenstvenost+erotizam) profile svojih junakinja opisuje razlicite scene s pocetka proslog veka - anais nin
Zene kao istinski glavni likovi?
Started by
Grazia
, Mar 20 2005 04:22
80 replies to this topic
#32
Grazia
-
- Members
- 2,714 posts
Posted 23 March 2005 - 21:57
samo mi nije jasno kako ste dosli do toga da ima malo knjiga sa glavnim zenskim likovima?
Jer je to jasno i najprostijim nabrajanjem.
A odgovor zasto je to tako je dobrim delom ovo:
zato sto su muskarci dominirali svim prostorima, jedno otprilike 20. vekova minimalno (devojcice su bile manje vredne, nisu slane u skole, smatralo se da treba da radjaju, nisu imale pravo glasa ni imanja, i da ne idemo u dubine istorije)
A, uzgred, kad vec i o pravopisu... Upitnik stoji samo iza UPITNIH recenica, a ova gore to nije.
#33
Indy
-
- Members
- 21,392 posts
Posted 23 March 2005 - 22:03
klasican primer zenske glavne junakinje koja kroz sve moguce pripovedacko-senzualne (zenstvenost, muzevnost, erotizam) profile junaka svojih 1001 price u prici opisuje razlicite scene iz pradavnih vremena - sheherezadatipican primer zenske spisateljice koja kroz sve moguce psiholosko-senzualne (zenstvenost+erotizam) profile svojih junakinja opisuje razlicite scene s pocetka proslog veka - anais nin
Edited by Indy, 23 March 2005 - 22:05.
#34
reddwarf
-
- Members
- 703 posts
Posted 23 March 2005 - 22:43
Konkretne informacije mozes pronaci u nekoj istoriji, teoriji knjizevnosti, u sopstvenom citalackom iskustvu, na netu...
Tri sekunde kasnije...
1) Moll Flanders
by Daniel Defoe. W.W. Norton & Company. From the publisher: "'Moll Flanders' is one of the best-selling novels of all time. This Norton Critical Edition is again based on the first edition text (1722), the only text known to be Defoe’s own. It is accompanied by detailed explanatory annotations and the editor’s essay outlining the novel’s textual history."
2) Kate Chopin: Complete Novels and Stories
by Kate Chopin. Library of America. In this collection, you'll find "The Awakening," Kate Chopin's most famous work, and you'll read about Edna Pontellier, as she struggles to find independence. From the publisher: "Her stories of fiercely independent women, culminating in her masterpiece 'The Awakening' (1899), challenged contemporary mores as much by their sensuousness as their politics and today seem decades ahead of their time."
3) Anna Karenina
by Leo Tolstoy. W.W. Norton & Company. In "Anna Karenina," we meet the title character, a young married woman who has an affair and eventually commits suicide by throwing herself under a train. The novel is one of the greatest tragedies of all time. From the publisher: "This Second Norton Critical Edition of Leo Tolstoy’s epic novel is again based on the Louise and Aylmer Maude translation (originally published in 1918; revised with notes in 1939), which has never been surpassed."
4) Madame Bovary
by Gustave Flaubert. W.W. Norton & Company. This novel is the story of Emma Bovary, who was full of dreams and romantic notions. After marrying a country doctor, and having a daughter, she feels unfulfilled, which propells her toward adulteries and impossible debt. Her death is painful and tragic. From the publisher: "The text of 'Madame Bovary' is here offered in a substantially new translation especially prepared by the editor..."
5) Jane Eyre
by Charlotte Brontë. Oxford University Press. Learn about the life and adventures of the title character, Jane Eyre, an orphaned young girl, who experience Lowood, becoming a governess, falling in love, and more. From the publisher: "With a heroine full of yearning, the dangerous secrets she encounters, and the choices she finally makes, Charlotte Bronte's innovative and enduring romantic novel continues to engage and provoke readers."
6) Pride and Prejudice
by Jane Austen. W.W. Norton & Company. "Pride and Prejudice" was originally entitled "First Impressions," but Jane Austen revised and finally published in 1813. Read about the Bennett family as Austen explores human nature.
7) The Scarlet Letter
by Nathaniel Hawthorne. W.W. Norton & Company. "The Scarlet Letter" is about Hester Prynne, who is forced to wear a scarlet letter to atone for her adultery. From the publisher: "The text of 'The Scarlet Letter' offered here is that of the first edition (March 1850), to which the editors have prefixed Hawthorne’s brief 'Preface' to the second edition (April 1850)."
8) Little Women
by Louisa May Alcott. W.W. Norton & Company. Josephine (Jo) March is one of the most memorable heroines in literary history, with her literary aspirations and antics. From the publisher: "This authoritative, accurate text of the first edition (1868–69) of Little Women is accompanied by textual variants and thorough explanatory annotations."
9) The House of Mirth
by Edith Wharton. W.W. Norton & Company. "The House of Mirth" details the rise and fall of Lily Bart, beautiful and charming woman, who is on the hunt for a husband. From the publisher: "This Norton Critical Edition of Edith Wharton’s quintessential novel of the Gilded Age reprints the Scribner’s magazine text of 1905, including the eight original illustrations. The text has been introduced and thoroughly annotated by the editor for student readers."
10) Daisy Miller
by Henry Miller. Oxford University Press. From the publisher: "'Daisy Miller' is a fascinating portrait of a young woman from Schenectady, New York, who, traveling in Europe, runs afoul of the socially pretentious American expatriate community in Rome... On the surface, 'Daisy Miller' unfolds a simple story of a young American girl's willful yet innocent flirtation with a young Italian, and its unfortunate consequences."
Ali, zar ti nisi htela raspravu o tome zasto ima manje "istinski glavnih" zenskih likova od muskih? Meni se ucinilo da si postavila ovaj topik zato sto si htela da pitas zasto je to tako ili zato sto to vec znas, pa si htela da podelis sa ostatkom forumskog sveta.
Tri sekunde kasnije...
1) Moll Flanders
by Daniel Defoe. W.W. Norton & Company. From the publisher: "'Moll Flanders' is one of the best-selling novels of all time. This Norton Critical Edition is again based on the first edition text (1722), the only text known to be Defoe’s own. It is accompanied by detailed explanatory annotations and the editor’s essay outlining the novel’s textual history."
2) Kate Chopin: Complete Novels and Stories
by Kate Chopin. Library of America. In this collection, you'll find "The Awakening," Kate Chopin's most famous work, and you'll read about Edna Pontellier, as she struggles to find independence. From the publisher: "Her stories of fiercely independent women, culminating in her masterpiece 'The Awakening' (1899), challenged contemporary mores as much by their sensuousness as their politics and today seem decades ahead of their time."
3) Anna Karenina
by Leo Tolstoy. W.W. Norton & Company. In "Anna Karenina," we meet the title character, a young married woman who has an affair and eventually commits suicide by throwing herself under a train. The novel is one of the greatest tragedies of all time. From the publisher: "This Second Norton Critical Edition of Leo Tolstoy’s epic novel is again based on the Louise and Aylmer Maude translation (originally published in 1918; revised with notes in 1939), which has never been surpassed."
4) Madame Bovary
by Gustave Flaubert. W.W. Norton & Company. This novel is the story of Emma Bovary, who was full of dreams and romantic notions. After marrying a country doctor, and having a daughter, she feels unfulfilled, which propells her toward adulteries and impossible debt. Her death is painful and tragic. From the publisher: "The text of 'Madame Bovary' is here offered in a substantially new translation especially prepared by the editor..."
5) Jane Eyre
by Charlotte Brontë. Oxford University Press. Learn about the life and adventures of the title character, Jane Eyre, an orphaned young girl, who experience Lowood, becoming a governess, falling in love, and more. From the publisher: "With a heroine full of yearning, the dangerous secrets she encounters, and the choices she finally makes, Charlotte Bronte's innovative and enduring romantic novel continues to engage and provoke readers."
6) Pride and Prejudice
by Jane Austen. W.W. Norton & Company. "Pride and Prejudice" was originally entitled "First Impressions," but Jane Austen revised and finally published in 1813. Read about the Bennett family as Austen explores human nature.
7) The Scarlet Letter
by Nathaniel Hawthorne. W.W. Norton & Company. "The Scarlet Letter" is about Hester Prynne, who is forced to wear a scarlet letter to atone for her adultery. From the publisher: "The text of 'The Scarlet Letter' offered here is that of the first edition (March 1850), to which the editors have prefixed Hawthorne’s brief 'Preface' to the second edition (April 1850)."
8) Little Women
by Louisa May Alcott. W.W. Norton & Company. Josephine (Jo) March is one of the most memorable heroines in literary history, with her literary aspirations and antics. From the publisher: "This authoritative, accurate text of the first edition (1868–69) of Little Women is accompanied by textual variants and thorough explanatory annotations."
9) The House of Mirth
by Edith Wharton. W.W. Norton & Company. "The House of Mirth" details the rise and fall of Lily Bart, beautiful and charming woman, who is on the hunt for a husband. From the publisher: "This Norton Critical Edition of Edith Wharton’s quintessential novel of the Gilded Age reprints the Scribner’s magazine text of 1905, including the eight original illustrations. The text has been introduced and thoroughly annotated by the editor for student readers."
10) Daisy Miller
by Henry Miller. Oxford University Press. From the publisher: "'Daisy Miller' is a fascinating portrait of a young woman from Schenectady, New York, who, traveling in Europe, runs afoul of the socially pretentious American expatriate community in Rome... On the surface, 'Daisy Miller' unfolds a simple story of a young American girl's willful yet innocent flirtation with a young Italian, and its unfortunate consequences."
Ali, zar ti nisi htela raspravu o tome zasto ima manje "istinski glavnih" zenskih likova od muskih? Meni se ucinilo da si postavila ovaj topik zato sto si htela da pitas zasto je to tako ili zato sto to vec znas, pa si htela da podelis sa ostatkom forumskog sveta.
#35
mandarinaD
-
- Members
- 1,573 posts
Posted 23 March 2005 - 23:07
klasican primer zenske glavne junakinje koja kroz sve moguce pripovedacko-senzualne (zenstvenost, muzevnost, erotizam) profile junaka svojih 1001 price u prici opisuje razlicite scene iz pradavnih vremena - sheherezada
jeste deja vu...ali i
ne samo price, nego i dnevnike, pisma...
uvek se vracam Delta of Venus i Pod staklenim zvonom
kada cujem anais nin prva rec asocijacija je melanholija.
<uprkos snaznoj eroticnosti/senzualnosti u nekim/mnogim njenim skribomanisanjima>
#36
Indy
-
- Members
- 21,392 posts
Posted 23 March 2005 - 23:29
I jeste melanholicno, ali ne kao depresivno, vec kao zamisljeno, zaneseno, sneno...kada cujem anais nin prva rec asocijacija je melanholija.
“The entire mystery of pleasure in a woman’s body lies in the intensity of the pulsation just before the orgasm. Sometimes it is slow, one-two-three, three palpitations which then project a fiery and icy liqueur through the body. If the palpitation is feeble, muted, the pleasure is like a gentler wave. The pocket seed of ecstasy bursts with more or less energy, when it is richest it touches every portion of the body, vibrating through every nerve and cell. If the palpitation is intense, the rhythm and beat of it is slower and the pleasure more lasting. Electric flesh-arrows, a second wave of pleasure falls over the first, a third which touches every nerve end, and now the third like an electric current traversing the body. A rainbow of color strikes the eyelids. A foam of music falls over the ears. It is the gong of the orgasm. There are times when a woman feels her body but lightly played on. Others when it reaches such a climax it seems it can never surpass. So many climaxes. Some caused by tenderness, some by desire, some by a word or an image seen during the day. There are times when the day itself demands a climax, days of which do not end in a climax, when the body is asleep or dreaming other dreams. There are days when the climax is not pleasure but pain, jealousy, terror, anxiety. And there are days when the climax takes place in creation, a white climax. Revolution is another climax. Sainthood another."
#37
mandarinaD
-
- Members
- 1,573 posts
Posted 23 March 2005 - 23:44
da,upravo tako:ako pogledas (a sigurno znas kako je izgledala) njene ochi,spustene kapke i sneni pogled-sve ti je jasno < kao sto rekoh negde na 4umu: sve je u pogledu;-) >
uzgred, imas li neki e-book pa si citirao?
ili je ovo bio neki deo koji cuvas za sebe?
uzgred, imas li neki e-book pa si citirao?
ili je ovo bio neki deo koji cuvas za sebe?
#38
natasha
-
- Banned
- 3,104 posts
Posted 24 March 2005 - 00:12
Ma kakva Anais Nin, Sheherezada je naracija milenijuma. Evo ovde:
http://www.b92.net/i...05
NYT-Zasto je bas to naracija milenijuma?: Geni i geniji su vecni.
http://www.b92.net/i...05
NYT-Zasto je bas to naracija milenijuma?: Geni i geniji su vecni.
#39
Grazia
-
- Members
- 2,714 posts
Posted 24 March 2005 - 00:34
Ali, zar ti nisi htela raspravu o tome zasto ima manje "istinski glavnih" zenskih likova od muskih? Meni se ucinilo da si postavila ovaj topik zato sto si htela da pitas zasto je to tako ili zato sto to vec znas, pa si htela da podelis sa ostatkom forumskog sveta.
Ne toliko zasto, jer, to mi je jasno (neko je to ovde lepo obrazlozio), nego sto sam htela da podelim zapazanje i komentare, i da se podsetim jos nekih koje sam znala, pa zaboravila, a i da saznam za jos neke iz novije knjizevnosti koje bi vredelo procitati. U tom smislu, hvala za svaku informaciju.
Ne toliko zasto, jer, to mi je jasno (neko je to ovde lepo obrazlozio), nego sto sam htela da podelim zapazanje i komentare, i da se podsetim jos nekih koje sam znala, pa zaboravila, a i da saznam za jos neke iz novije knjizevnosti koje bi vredelo procitati. U tom smislu, hvala za svaku informaciju.
#40
Indy
-
- Members
- 21,392 posts
Posted 24 March 2005 - 00:34
Ne, imam samo prave booksda,upravo tako:ako pogledas (a sigurno znas kako je izgledala) njene ochi,spustene kapke i sneni pogled-sve ti je jasno < kao sto rekoh negde na 4umu: sve je u pogledu;-) >
uzgred, imas li neki e-book pa si citirao?
ili je ovo bio neki deo koji cuvas za sebe?
Ovo je sa nekog web sajta
#41
mandarinaD
-
- Members
- 1,573 posts
Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:01
hvala za urlNe, imam samo prave books
Ovo je sa nekog web sajta
bas je bila cudna i sjajna i zenstvena. malo podseca na nekoga...
retko se moze naci <ne da ja znam> neki njen dnevnik ili prica u pdf-u.
#42
wagabund
-
- Members
- 1,617 posts
Posted 24 March 2005 - 09:43
to je samo moje pojednostaljeno tumacenje funkcionisanja ovog (i dobrog dela ostalih) topika. kada neko postavi temu, obicno iznese i stav sa kojim se mozete sloziti ili ne.o cemu vi to govorite?
o kakvom biranju strana?
da li vam je bitno biranje strana, kad iste pominjete?
chandra je barem postavio pitanje, a vi sad izmisljate neku nepostojece biranje strana?
a zasto, ako smem pitati?
chandra je rekao;
samo mi nije jasno kako ste dosli do toga da ima malo knjiga sa glavnim zenskim likovima?
i time izneo svoj stav, i ako sam slobodan da tumacim, svrstao se medju one koji se ne slazu sa pocetnom idejom da 'zene kao istinski glavni likovi' nisu brojne u knjizevnosti.
kada sam pominjao biranje strana, zapravo sam se nadao da cu naterati chandru da agresivnije i argumentovanije objasni svoj stav.
nisam pozivao na sukob razlicitih polova i polnosti, ako vam je tako zvucalo.
Edited by wagabund, 24 March 2005 - 09:45.
#43
valhalla
-
- Members
- 85 posts
Posted 23 April 2005 - 00:51
Tolstoj nije imao seksualnih trauma. Kako si dosla na tu ideju?Winterborn, pisac Dea Trier Morch je jedan od stotine primera dobrih i glavnih zenskih likova. Samo se treba odmaknuti od ustaljenih staza izvikanih knjiga.
Tolstoj je mozda umeo da da uverljive zenske likove, ali su mu muskarci nepodnosljivo traljavi i blentavi. Ocigledno je patio od neke seksualne frustracije.
Kakva bi po tebi to trauma mogla da bude? Meni se cini da je on jednostavno razumeo ljude oko sebe i bio dobar posmatrac...Uostalom skoro svi njegovi likovi kako muski tako i zenski su istorijske licnosti kojima je on samo u romanima menao imena...Kao model za A.Karenjinu uzeo je jednu od Puskinovih kcerki koju je licno poznavao...
#44
Kninski
-
- Members
- 135 posts
Posted 23 April 2005 - 23:48
Ja bih se slozio za Tolstoja, mislim, da je bio frustriran.
Svi muskarci su mu mlitavi i tunjavi a oni koji nisu, nikada ne dobijaju devojku koju vole... kao da je kažnjavao prave muškarce a favorizovao gnjide. Prečesto je ponavljao taj obrazac da bi to bilo slučajno.
Svi muskarci su mu mlitavi i tunjavi a oni koji nisu, nikada ne dobijaju devojku koju vole... kao da je kažnjavao prave muškarce a favorizovao gnjide. Prečesto je ponavljao taj obrazac da bi to bilo slučajno.
#45
valhalla
-
- Members
- 85 posts
Posted 24 April 2005 - 21:50
Pre nego sto ti odgovorim reci mi koje muske likove kod Tolstoja smatras mlitavcima,koje gnjidama,a koji su po tebi pravi muskarci?Ja bih se slozio za Tolstoja, mislim, da je bio frustriran.
Svi muskarci su mu mlitavi i tunjavi a oni koji nisu, nikada ne dobijaju devojku koju vole... kao da je kažnjavao prave muškarce a favorizovao gnjide. Prečesto je ponavljao taj obrazac da bi to bilo slučajno.
