Rebel, rebel, ne znam kakvi mi argumenti trebaju za stav da je bavljenje zaverama cisto gubljenje vremena. B)Mac, твоје је право да се спрдаш са чиме хоћеш. Ја само мислим да то радиш услед недостатка аргумената.
JFK
Started by
Pobunjenik
, Jan 02 2004 01:08
59 replies to this topic
#16
Mac
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 03:07
#17
zvonko
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 03:47
JFK je, posmatrajući ga sa umetničko-dramskog aspekta, odličan (stvarno sam se žešće uživeo u materiju gledajući ga) ali je kao istorijski dokument obično smeće.
Na žalost Oliver Stone, zaluđeni, lucidni, rekreativno drogirani šarlatan kakav i jeste (što su sve odlične osobine ako želite da postanete dobar auteur, ali ne i istoričar) ga je celo vreme "prodavao" kao neku vrstu finalnog odgovora na pitanje šta se stvarno dogodilo sa Kenedijem. Ovaj film to definitivno nije jer sebi dozvoljava neverovatno poigravanje sa činjenicama. Koje mogu da listam jednu po jednu ako nekog baš zanima.
Mislim, čak i najveći zagovornici teorije zavere u Kenedijevom slučaju (čiji se broj u zadnjih 10 godina najmanje prepolovio jer je sve manje-više poznato) otpisuju Stounovog "junaka" tadašnjeg javnog tužioca u Nju Orleansu Džima Garisona (tumači ga Kevin Kostner) kao najobičniju budalu željnu pažnje.
Stone mu je malo zašećerio lik kroz izvrtanje činjenica, ali pretraživanje neta uz pomoć Google-a za 5 minuta može da pobije sve gluposti koje je Stone iznosi u filmu.
.
Kenedija je ubio Li Harvi Osvald. Ma koliko to neverovatno zvučalo delovao je sam. Za 40 godina istrage nije nađen nijedan jedini valjan dokaz da nije bilo tako. Iza njega nisu bili ni Rusi, ni Kubanci, ni američka mafija, ni CIA, ni Lindon Džonson, ni Slobo Milošević...niti snajperista broj 2.
Na Kenedijeva kabriolet kola je tog dana u novembru 1963. (u kojem su se još nalazili Kenedijeva žena Jackie, tadašnji guverner države Teksas i vozač) u Dalasu ispalio tri (3) metka u razmaku od 8 sekundi. Prvi je promašio, drugi pogodio Kenedija nazad između vrata i leđa i izašao mu napred na dušnik i zakucao se u leđa guvernera koji je sedeo na suvozačevom mestu. Trećim metkom ga je dovršio (mada Kenedi ne bi verovatno ni efekte drugog preživeo ali bi barem imao veće šanse) pogodivši ga ravno u glavu blizu temena.
Na žalost Oliver Stone, zaluđeni, lucidni, rekreativno drogirani šarlatan kakav i jeste (što su sve odlične osobine ako želite da postanete dobar auteur, ali ne i istoričar) ga je celo vreme "prodavao" kao neku vrstu finalnog odgovora na pitanje šta se stvarno dogodilo sa Kenedijem. Ovaj film to definitivno nije jer sebi dozvoljava neverovatno poigravanje sa činjenicama. Koje mogu da listam jednu po jednu ako nekog baš zanima.
Mislim, čak i najveći zagovornici teorije zavere u Kenedijevom slučaju (čiji se broj u zadnjih 10 godina najmanje prepolovio jer je sve manje-više poznato) otpisuju Stounovog "junaka" tadašnjeg javnog tužioca u Nju Orleansu Džima Garisona (tumači ga Kevin Kostner) kao najobičniju budalu željnu pažnje.
Stone mu je malo zašećerio lik kroz izvrtanje činjenica, ali pretraživanje neta uz pomoć Google-a za 5 minuta može da pobije sve gluposti koje je Stone iznosi u filmu.
.
Kenedija je ubio Li Harvi Osvald. Ma koliko to neverovatno zvučalo delovao je sam. Za 40 godina istrage nije nađen nijedan jedini valjan dokaz da nije bilo tako. Iza njega nisu bili ni Rusi, ni Kubanci, ni američka mafija, ni CIA, ni Lindon Džonson, ni Slobo Milošević...niti snajperista broj 2.
Na Kenedijeva kabriolet kola je tog dana u novembru 1963. (u kojem su se još nalazili Kenedijeva žena Jackie, tadašnji guverner države Teksas i vozač) u Dalasu ispalio tri (3) metka u razmaku od 8 sekundi. Prvi je promašio, drugi pogodio Kenedija nazad između vrata i leđa i izašao mu napred na dušnik i zakucao se u leđa guvernera koji je sedeo na suvozačevom mestu. Trećim metkom ga je dovršio (mada Kenedi ne bi verovatno ni efekte drugog preživeo ali bi barem imao veće šanse) pogodivši ga ravno u glavu blizu temena.
#18
Voo
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 04:11
semitsko-hamitska zavera, neka se nevernici podave u ljuskama semenki dok gledaju jfk. prokleti srBi!
#19
Spanky
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 05:57
Dakle, po ko zna koji put na ovom forumu, prizivamo Velečasnog Billa Hicksa da nas malo prosvetli.
Onako, samo malo.
Back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left, back
and to the left. Which, by the way, that action you see Kennedy's head
go through in the Zapruder film - caused by a bullet... [points behind
him] comin from up there, ha!
Yes, I know it looks to the layman or someone who might dabble in
physics... This action here would be caused by a bullet coming from...
Well...
[thinks]
Up here, did you see that? Did everyone see that? Yeah, but no. What
happened was Oswald's gun went off, causing an echo to echo through
the buildings of Dealey Plaza and the echo went by the limo on the
left up into the grassy knoll hitting some leaves causing dust to fly
out which 56 witnesses testified was a gun shot, cos immediately...
Kennedy's head went over.
But the reason his head went over is cause the echo went by the
motorcade one the left and he went "What was that?"
"So there, we have figured out, go back to bed America, your
government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed
America, you government is in control again. Here, here's American
Gladiators. Watch this, shut up! Go back to bed America, here's
American Gladiators. Here's 56 channels of it. Watch these pituitary
retards bang their fuckin skulls together and congratulate you on
living in the land of freedom. Here you go America, you are free, to
do as we tell you, you are free, to do as we tell you."
"Oh good. Honey, I heard on the news that they've figured out that the
gun, what happened is, is that there was an echo and Kennedy was, er,
asking Jackie what it was, and that that's why his head flew...
Honey what time's Gladiators on? Are we missing it? I'm so glad we're
free, Honey."
Nuff said.
Onako, samo malo.
Back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left, back
and to the left. Which, by the way, that action you see Kennedy's head
go through in the Zapruder film - caused by a bullet... [points behind
him] comin from up there, ha!
Yes, I know it looks to the layman or someone who might dabble in
physics... This action here would be caused by a bullet coming from...
Well...
[thinks]
Up here, did you see that? Did everyone see that? Yeah, but no. What
happened was Oswald's gun went off, causing an echo to echo through
the buildings of Dealey Plaza and the echo went by the limo on the
left up into the grassy knoll hitting some leaves causing dust to fly
out which 56 witnesses testified was a gun shot, cos immediately...
Kennedy's head went over.
But the reason his head went over is cause the echo went by the
motorcade one the left and he went "What was that?"
"So there, we have figured out, go back to bed America, your
government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed
America, you government is in control again. Here, here's American
Gladiators. Watch this, shut up! Go back to bed America, here's
American Gladiators. Here's 56 channels of it. Watch these pituitary
retards bang their fuckin skulls together and congratulate you on
living in the land of freedom. Here you go America, you are free, to
do as we tell you, you are free, to do as we tell you."
"Oh good. Honey, I heard on the news that they've figured out that the
gun, what happened is, is that there was an echo and Kennedy was, er,
asking Jackie what it was, and that that's why his head flew...
Honey what time's Gladiators on? Are we missing it? I'm so glad we're
free, Honey."
Nuff said.
#20
mokuci
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:02
Back and to the left...
I love talking about Kennedy. I was just down in Dallas, Texas. You
know you can go down there and, er, to Dealey Plaza where Kennedy was
assassinated. And you can actually go to the sixth floor of the
Schoolbook Depository. It's a museum called... 'The Assassination
Museum'. I think they named that after the assassination. I can't be
too sure of the chronology here but... Anyway they have the window set
up to look exactly like it did on that day. And it's really accurate,
you know, cos Oswald's not in it.
"Yeah, yeah so wow that's cool." Painstaking accuracy, you know. It's
true, it's called the 'Sniper's Nest'. It's glassed in, it's got he
boxes sitting there. You can't actually get to the window as such but
the reason they did that of course, they didn't want thousands of
American tourists getting there each year going [Mimes looking out of
window]
"No fucking way!
I can't even see the road.
Shit they're lying to us.
Fuck!
Where are they?
There's no fucking way.
Not unless Oswald was hanging by his toes, upside down from the ledge.
Either that or some pigeons grabbed onto him, flew him over the
motorcade... Surely someone would have seen that. You know there was
rumours of anti-Castro pigeons seen drinking in bars... Someone
overhead them saying 'coup, coup'
Coo. Unbelievable. And you know what's wild, people's, er, attitudes
in the States about it. Talking about Kennedy, people come up to me:
"Bill, quit talking about Kennedy, man. Let it go. It's a long time
ago - just forget about it."
And I'm like alright, then don't bring up Jesus to me.
As long as we're talking shelf life here.
"Bill, you know Jesus died for you."
Yeah, well it was a long time ago. Forget about it!
How about this. Get Pilate to release the fucking files. Quit washing
your hands Pilate - release the goddam files. Who else was on that
grassy Golgotha that day?
btw: ovo nije prvi put prikazivano na tom kanalu, majmuni su premijerno
Stounov JFK pustili na svom kanalu u zvanicne dane
zalosti kad je Djindjic assasin-ovan.
I love talking about Kennedy. I was just down in Dallas, Texas. You
know you can go down there and, er, to Dealey Plaza where Kennedy was
assassinated. And you can actually go to the sixth floor of the
Schoolbook Depository. It's a museum called... 'The Assassination
Museum'. I think they named that after the assassination. I can't be
too sure of the chronology here but... Anyway they have the window set
up to look exactly like it did on that day. And it's really accurate,
you know, cos Oswald's not in it.
"Yeah, yeah so wow that's cool." Painstaking accuracy, you know. It's
true, it's called the 'Sniper's Nest'. It's glassed in, it's got he
boxes sitting there. You can't actually get to the window as such but
the reason they did that of course, they didn't want thousands of
American tourists getting there each year going [Mimes looking out of
window]
"No fucking way!
I can't even see the road.
Shit they're lying to us.
Fuck!
Where are they?
There's no fucking way.
Not unless Oswald was hanging by his toes, upside down from the ledge.
Either that or some pigeons grabbed onto him, flew him over the
motorcade... Surely someone would have seen that. You know there was
rumours of anti-Castro pigeons seen drinking in bars... Someone
overhead them saying 'coup, coup'
Coo. Unbelievable. And you know what's wild, people's, er, attitudes
in the States about it. Talking about Kennedy, people come up to me:
"Bill, quit talking about Kennedy, man. Let it go. It's a long time
ago - just forget about it."
And I'm like alright, then don't bring up Jesus to me.
As long as we're talking shelf life here.
"Bill, you know Jesus died for you."
Yeah, well it was a long time ago. Forget about it!
How about this. Get Pilate to release the fucking files. Quit washing
your hands Pilate - release the goddam files. Who else was on that
grassy Golgotha that day?
btw: ovo nije prvi put prikazivano na tom kanalu, majmuni su premijerno
Stounov JFK pustili na svom kanalu u zvanicne dane
zalosti kad je Djindjic assasin-ovan.
Edited by mokuci, 02 January 2004 - 08:04.
#21
reg
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:31
btw: ovo nije prvi put prikazivano na tom kanalu, majmuni su premijerno
Stounov JFK pustili na svom kanalu u zvanicne dane
zalosti kad je Djindjic assasin-ovan.
Toga se i ja secam, doduse mislim da nije premijerno, izgleda da je to pinkovsko vidjenje coolnessa - ubiju ti premijera ti pustis JFKa.
BTW od silnih 3ABEPA nisam stigao ni da spomenem sam JFK, koji je jedan od najboljih(ako ne i najbolji) Stone-ov film, i (meni) nije bitno da li su dogadjaji istiniti ili ne, da li je Kostnerov lik u stvarnosti heroj ili samopromoter, u stvari ne zanima me ni da li je lik Kevina Kostnera stvaran.
#22
Mac
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:36
Peter Gabriel - Family Snapshot
=======================
The streets are lined with camera crews
Everywhere he goes is news
Today is different
Today is not the same
Today I make the action
Take snapshot into the light, snapshot into the light
I'm shooting into the light
Four miles down the cavalcade moves on
Driving into the sun
If I worked it out right
They won't see me or the gun
Two miles to go, they're clearing the road
The cheering has really begun
I've got my radio
I can hear what's going on
I've been waiting for this
I have been waiting for this
All you people in TV land
I will wake up your empty shells
Peak-time viewing blown in a flash
As I burn into your memory cells
'Cos I'm alive
They're coming 'round the corner with the bikers at the front
I'm wiping the sweat from my eyes
- It's a matter of time
- It's a matter of will
And the governor's car is not far behind
He's not the one I've got in mind
'Cos there he is - the man of the hour, standing in the limousine
"I don't really hate you
- I don't care what you do
We were made for each other
- Me and you
I want to be somebody
- You were like that too
If you don't get given you learn to take
And I will take you. "
Holding my breath
Release the catch
And I let the bullet fly
All turned quiet - I have been here before
Lonely boy hiding behind the front door
Friends have all gone home
There's my toy gun on the floor
Come back Mum and Dad
You're growing apart
You know that I'm growing up sad
I need some attention
I shoot into the light
=======================
The streets are lined with camera crews
Everywhere he goes is news
Today is different
Today is not the same
Today I make the action
Take snapshot into the light, snapshot into the light
I'm shooting into the light
Four miles down the cavalcade moves on
Driving into the sun
If I worked it out right
They won't see me or the gun
Two miles to go, they're clearing the road
The cheering has really begun
I've got my radio
I can hear what's going on
I've been waiting for this
I have been waiting for this
All you people in TV land
I will wake up your empty shells
Peak-time viewing blown in a flash
As I burn into your memory cells
'Cos I'm alive
They're coming 'round the corner with the bikers at the front
I'm wiping the sweat from my eyes
- It's a matter of time
- It's a matter of will
And the governor's car is not far behind
He's not the one I've got in mind
'Cos there he is - the man of the hour, standing in the limousine
"I don't really hate you
- I don't care what you do
We were made for each other
- Me and you
I want to be somebody
- You were like that too
If you don't get given you learn to take
And I will take you. "
Holding my breath
Release the catch
And I let the bullet fly
All turned quiet - I have been here before
Lonely boy hiding behind the front door
Friends have all gone home
There's my toy gun on the floor
Come back Mum and Dad
You're growing apart
You know that I'm growing up sad
I need some attention
I shoot into the light
#23
Pobunjenik
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:05
Заиста је смешно и неозбиљно мени лепити етикете некаквог љотићевца и антијеврејина. Да си, Рег, читао моје постове не форуму религија схватио би да ниси у праву.
Звонко, грешиш. Насео си на причу, коју је уосталом лансирала Воренова комисија, како је Освлад одговоран за све. Најлакше је пребацити одговорност на неког "лудака", и скинути сву одговорност са правих убица. Ако заиста верујеш да је Освалд убица, зашто онда није започето суђење на ком би се то и доказало, већ је убијен од стране, такође једног "лудака" по имену Џеки Руби?
Једино рационално објашњење јесте да Харви Ли Освалд НИЈЕ убио Кенедија. Човек је заиста био жртвено јагње искоришћено као параван од стране Мосада како би сакрио праве убице америчког председника.
Џеки Ли, човек мафије (не заборавимо да ЦИА, Мосад, и мафија изузетно успешно сарађују) је за време боравка у затвору заражен неким обликом галопирајућег рака од чега је умро, и на тај начин је наизглед затворен круг, како се не би дошло до правих организатора атентата.
Звонко, грешиш. Насео си на причу, коју је уосталом лансирала Воренова комисија, како је Освлад одговоран за све. Најлакше је пребацити одговорност на неког "лудака", и скинути сву одговорност са правих убица. Ако заиста верујеш да је Освалд убица, зашто онда није започето суђење на ком би се то и доказало, већ је убијен од стране, такође једног "лудака" по имену Џеки Руби?
Једино рационално објашњење јесте да Харви Ли Освалд НИЈЕ убио Кенедија. Човек је заиста био жртвено јагње искоришћено као параван од стране Мосада како би сакрио праве убице америчког председника.
Џеки Ли, човек мафије (не заборавимо да ЦИА, Мосад, и мафија изузетно успешно сарађују) је за време боравка у затвору заражен неким обликом галопирајућег рака од чега је умро, и на тај начин је наизглед затворен круг, како се не би дошло до правих организатора атентата.
#24
kamichak
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:09
rak nije zarazna bolestЏеки Ли, човек мафије (не заборавимо да ЦИА, Мосад, и мафија изузетно успешно сарађују) је за време боравка у затвору заражен неким обликом галопирајућег рака од чега је умро, и на тај начин је наизглед затворен круг, како се не би дошло до правих организатора атентата.
#25
Pobunjenik
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:14
То ти мислиш. Ако су ти научници изоловали ХИВ вирус којим се служе како би смањили светску популацију, што не би на неки начин заразили једног Рубија?
Пардон, направио сам грешку у претходном посту, није Џек Ли већ Џек Руби.
Пардон, направио сам грешку у претходном посту, није Џек Ли већ Џек Руби.
#26
kamichak
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:15
pobunjenik,
ovaj dan mi je loshO poceo
but you saved it
ok, predajem se
rak je zarazna bolest
ovaj dan mi je loshO poceo
but you saved it
ok, predajem se
rak je zarazna bolest
#27
Pobunjenik
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:19
Слушај, једна од претпоставки је да је човек умро од неког облика галопирајућег рака, али то није толико битно. Суштина је да је мртав, и да није морао пред судом да говори о томе за кога је радио и од кога је добио налог да убије Освалда.
#28
kamichak
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:21
je l' ti imas neki dokaz za to sto tvrdis?
da nam skeniras neki papiric, dokumentchic, neku kapljicu krvi?
ili ti se ovo javilo
i treba da ti verujem na rec
da nam skeniras neki papiric, dokumentchic, neku kapljicu krvi?
ili ti se ovo javilo
i treba da ti verujem na rec
#29
Pobunjenik
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:27
Доказ? Па прочитај мој први пост на ову тему. Препун је доказа о умешаности Мосада у овај злочин, као и повезаности исте организације са редитељем филма. Ал' ако хоћеш могу ја још доказа да ти изнесем, само да се вратим из кладионице где идем да подигнем хиљаду динара које сам зарадио тако што сам погодио да ће радикали добити преко 24% гласова. То би могао да буде још један доказ да сам у праву, али у вези са домаћом политиком.
#30
kamichak
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:29
e svaka cast
to je bilo totalno neocekivano u ovom blatu
nema dokaza u tvom prvom postu
samo nagadjanja
tako da
kad dignesh honorar
dokaze na sunce
to je bilo totalno neocekivano u ovom blatu
nema dokaza u tvom prvom postu
samo nagadjanja
tako da
kad dignesh honorar
dokaze na sunce
