687 replies to this topic

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

Hvala!

[alpiner]

Honda motorsport boss Yashusa Arai has told F1i he wants the Japanese engine manufacturer to supply a second team with power units next year.
Returning to the sport at the start of this season, Honda has entered in to a works partnership with McLaren for 2015, with no other customers. With Haas set to enter in 2016, the FIA recently opened up a tender to potentially allow another new team to join F1 either next year or in 2017.
While Arai insists the current situation is sufficient for the power unit’s development due to McLaren’s size, he says it would be vindication of Honda’s work if another team approaches him later in the year.
“Unfortunately I don’t have any offers right now,” Arai said. “Maybe after the summer break, I hope someone calls me and says ‘please give me your good engine’! Right now we don’t have it, but I hope we get it.
“We learn a lot with McLaren. It’s very successful, and for the development we don’t need [another team] because it’s a top team so we learn enough. But for the whole of Formula One it’s very important to increase teams to make it more attractive and more competitive. I think that’s the right way to go.”
Asked if Honda would want to supply engines to another team if a new entry came to him, Arai replied: “Yes.
“I would feel a very good feeling if some new team or newcomer says ‘Please, we want to use your engine’. I would be very happy. Do we have the power to operate everything? I don’t know. Maybe we need more time to operate more than one team. Of course, McLaren-Honda is a works team, so how we would separate that and work with another team I have no idea.”

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Pa jedino Manor ako hoce da im pridje, ne verujem da bilo ko od Mercedesovih to zeli a jos manje Red Bul koji su blize povlacenju iz F1 nego prelasku sa statusa fabrickih ekipa na status musterije.

[leone]

 

Honda motorsport boss Yashusa Arai has told F1i he wants the Japanese engine manufacturer to supply a second team with power units next year.
Returning to the sport at the start of this season, Honda has entered in to a works partnership with McLaren for 2015, with no other customers. With Haas set to enter in 2016, the FIA recently opened up a tender to potentially allow another new team to join F1 either next year or in 2017.
While Arai insists the current situation is sufficient for the power unit’s development due to McLaren’s size, he says it would be vindication of Honda’s work if another team approaches him later in the year.
“Unfortunately I don’t have any offers right now,” Arai said. “Maybe after the summer break, I hope someone calls me and says ‘please give me your good engine’! Right now we don’t have it, but I hope we get it.
“We learn a lot with McLaren. It’s very successful, and for the development we don’t need [another team] because it’s a top team so we learn enough. But for the whole of Formula One it’s very important to increase teams to make it more attractive and more competitive. I think that’s the right way to go.”
Asked if Honda would want to supply engines to another team if a new entry came to him, Arai replied: “Yes.
“I would feel a very good feeling if some new team or newcomer says ‘Please, we want to use your engine’. I would be very happy. Do we have the power to operate everything? I don’t know. Maybe we need more time to operate more than one team. Of course, McLaren-Honda is a works team, so how we would separate that and work with another team I have no idea.”

 

Mora da se gospon Arai izmotava, blago receno.

[staneC]

Možda je off- topic , ali nakon jučerašnjeg 24LM, sve je jasnije, da ovakvi hibrid i motori nisu za 1,5 sata F1, nego za 6/24 sata WEC. Našla F1 da promoviše nizku potrošnju i downsizing. Iduče godine i Ford dolazi u WEC, PA ČE BITI 5 tvorničkih ekipa. U F1 biti če dve, od koje jedna nema veze sa svakodnevnim automobilima.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

I, kao sto rekoh...

 

Pa jedino Manor ako hoce da im pridje, ne verujem da bilo ko od Mercedesovih to zeli a jos manje Red Bul koji su blize povlacenju iz F1 nego prelasku sa statusa fabrickih ekipa na status musterije.

 

 

Backmarker Manor is emerging as the front-runner to become Honda's first F1 customer.

 

The Japanese carmaker returned to F1 in 2015 as the works partner for McLaren, with whom it dominated the sport some decades ago.

 

Honda decided to focus only on McLaren this year, but F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai said recently he was open to adding a customer for 2016.

 

"If (other) teams want to use our engine or power unit," he said in February, "we can deliver that."

 

But the opening third of the 2015 season has been difficult for Honda, as it struggles with reliability and performance under the new turbo V6 'power unit' regulations.

 

Manor, however, could be a potential customer for Honda, Speed Week reports.

 

Currently, the team is powered by year-old Ferrari engines in the wake of the Marussia collapse and resurrection.

 

But Manor appears to have now stopped treading water, hiring the highly experienced Bob Bell as advisor and said to be focusing its efforts on an all-new car for 2016.

 

"We're in a very rapid period of rebuilding," said president Graeme Lowdon.

 

Another notable signing by Manor recently was Luca Furbatto, most recently the chief designer at Toro Rosso.

 

But before that, he spent ten years at McLaren, including as project leader of the 2011 car.

 

"Luca is a guy with a huge amount of experience," said Lowdon, "so that's going to strengthen the design side of the business."

 

Rumours of a link between McLaren-Honda and Manor are not new, although Woking has denied it wants to set up a 'B' team.

 

But it should be noted that McLaren is still owed money from the Marussia collapse, with documents late last year showing a debt of $11 million.

 

McLaren is also looking to advance the burgeoning careers of its junior drivers Kevin Magnussen, the 2015 reserve, and current GP2 series leader Stoffel Vandoorne.

 

Taman da oba fenjerasa budu pod jednim krovom!

[staneC]

Pa videli RedBull i TorroRoso, pa i oni digli nogu. Šalu na stranu. Mislim, da bi to Hondi pasalo ko budali šamar.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Renault says Red Bull criticism is hurting its confidence in F1
By Ian Parkes     Tuesday, June 16th 2015, 09:36 GMT


Renault Sport managing director Cyril Abiteboul has urged the Red Bull Formula 1 team to stop publicly slating his organisation as he claims it is damaging attempts to rebuild confidence.

Since returning to Renault last September, Abiteboul has discovered a very different company to the one he departed after 11 years to become Caterham team principal in 2012.

Four years of championship dominance for the Red Bull-Renault partnership has been followed by 18 months of pain and pressure since the introduction of the new engine formula.

That has resulted in constant criticism from the likes of Red Bull team principal Christian Horner and advisor Helmut Marko, which Abiteboul maintains has had a negative impact on Renault's attempts to resolve issues.

"When you are in a position that is not satisfying and is not working you obviously have a duty to change things," Abiteboul told AUTOSPORT.

"What I think was needed more than anything was to again build confidence in ourselves.

"I compare the situation to 2005 when we designed and built one engine which allowed us to win the championship.

"I look at the confidence we had back then to do that sort of thing, to shortcut all the processes in terms of validation.

"Now, each time we try and speed things up we immediately get sacked on track because of various issues. There's a vicious circle we need to invert.

"We can only do that if we win small battles that will again build the confidence in ourselves, in individuals and in the people in our infrastructure.

"That is one of the difficulties we have with our relationship with Red Bull.

"When you are not one single team it is more difficult to again build up the confidence in a group than when you are completely integrated.

"That's one of the things we are working on. We are trying to get Red Bull to support us rather than bash us publicly."

MOVING ON FROM EARLY-SEASON CRITICISM

Abiteboul is hopeful a corner has now been turned in the relationship.

"They know what it takes to build confidence within an organisation," he said.

"That's something they themselves had to do in order to build the success they had over many years.

"Clearly the negative comments we had at the start of the season are not going to help rebuild the confidence we need if we want to be more successful together in the future. They know that.

"We have had an opportunity to exchange on this and we are trying to move away from that.

"In my opinion this is the biggest challenge I have had to deal with, to rebuild the confidence in Renault Sport F1."

He admits confidence will only come if Renault builds a more reliable and powerful engine.

"It's a Catch 22, that's why at some point in time you have to stop running after a train that has already gone and to wait for the next train," assessed Abiteboul.

"That's why I said when I returned to Renault Sport last year it wouldn't take one winter to catch up to Mercedes.

"It's an obvious situation, but when I said that to Red Bull Racing it was not something they liked to hear.

"They've tried to induce us to work quicker, but if anything it has aggravated a situation that was very raw.

"We need to trust and listen to each other, rather than trying to change the natural course of things."

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Honda has backed away from speculation it is ready to supply a second team with engines in 2016.

 

The Japanese carmaker has said consistently since returning to the sport that while this year will be spent focused on works partner McLaren, it is open to selling the same turbo V6 to paying customers from 2016.

 

Manor, currently powered by last year's Ferrari power unit, had indicated it was open to a change.

 

But as the works McLaren-Honda collaboration continued to stutter in Austria, Honda's F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai said: "I still think it is a good idea to supply more teams with engines, but the truth is that there is no such plan.

 

"We are focused on working with McLaren," he is quoted by Speed Week.

 

But Andy Cowell, engine chief of Mercedes who equip three customers as well as its works team, said the more similarly-powered cars on the grid, "The more you learn".

 

And that might be exactly what struggling Honda needs at present.

 

McLaren team boss Eric Boullier, however, said: "We (Honda) are not yet ready to supply a second team.

 

"Even if I have the same opinion (as Arai) that this would be good for the sport, I also don't believe it hurts us (McLaren) to be the sole partner of Honda.

 

"Much of the development work can be done on the test rigs, and a second team can also be a distraction," Boullier added.

 

 

[alberto.ascari]

Manor sa proslogodisnjim Ferrarijem ima dva odustajanja u sezoni, McL nije nesto mnogo puta vise video cilj.

Koji ce im qratz poljoprivredna mehanizacija?

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Horner naravno opet pravi racun bez krcmara. Kao sto im je Reno iskljucivi krivac sto su sporiji od STR sa istim Renoovim motorom, tako u RBR bolje znaju od samog Renoa kada je ovima vreme da napuste F1:

 

Renault has denied it is moving towards F1's paddock turnstile.

 

Amid talk of a split with Red Bull and a return to full works team status, the big rumour after Austria is that Renault is in fact close to deciding to simply quit formula one.

 

That is because the development or 'token' rules are gradually tightening, making it more likely Renault's deficit with its V6 'power unit' will be locked in for the long term.

 

But Renault's operations director Remi Taffin insists: "I do not agree with that. We will not give up."

 

In fact, Taffin said Renault is now on top of its biggest early-season problems, insisting that "reliability and driveability should no longer be a problem".

 

He said the rest of the season will be spent improving the engines for 2015 but "especially for 2016".

 

And Taffin said Renault remains contractually bound to Red Bull for 2016.

 

"Our relationship with Red Bull is good. Therefore I believe that we will continue to supply this team," he added.

 

Evo danas da ponude iz RBR da se menjaju sa Meklarenom, da mi dobijemo fabricki status kod Renoa a oni kod Honde, oberucke bih prihvatio. Vise verujem da ce Reno - bude li im dato da rade u zdravoj atmosferi - dovesti u red svoju masinu, pa makar 100 puta Hondin bazicni koncept bio bolji, nego da ce Arai i veselo drustvo to moci da urade.

 

Uostalom, Honda nam je ne tako davno priustila perfektan uvid u svoju kompetenciju vizavi F1:

 

 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Calls for F1 to revisit the detail of its engine rules are growing stronger.

 

In Austria, the full extent of the current situation became clear when McLaren's cars were ordered an extraordinary 50 places down the 20-position grid.

 

"It's ridiculous," said former F1 driver and Britain's lead Sky commentator Martin Brundle.

 

The situation, with drivers are being penalised not only on the grid but also with drive-throughs during the race, has emerged due to the long-life rules.

 

Each driver is limited to just four 'power units' for the entire season, but some Renault and Honda-powered runners in particular quickly burned through their allocation before the calendar's mid-point.

 

"We agreed something in Malaysia to get rid of the four engine rule but that (change) was scuppered," said Red Bull boss Christian Horner.

 

"It's not a good situation to have big manufacturers like Renault and Honda publically berated in the way that we are.

 

"We need to have a good look at it," he insisted.

 

Eric Boullier, Horner's counterpart at McLaren-Honda, agrees, arguing that the extent to the 'freeze' on engine development is also too severe.

 

"I think we've gone too far with the limitation of development, and consequently the penalty system," he said.

 

"Racing is a competition, and in any competition you have to be able to develop yourself to be better.

 

"I think you should be allowed to have free development," said Boullier, "end of story. No debate, no penalties -- don't make it complicated, for us but, even more, for the fans," the Frenchman added.

 

Monisha Kaltenborn, of Sauber, thinks 'free development' would be going too far, but she does think something should be done to help F1's most struggling manufacturers.

 

"It is something to take seriously," she said, "because the fans will not accept another two years with these (sorts of) races."

 

But as things stand, the rules are only tightening further for 2016. The use of in-season 'tokens' this year, for instance, was only a loophole that was uncovered at the last minute by Ferrari.

 

"This formula one has become like alchemy," said Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne, "when it should be racing.

 

"Nobody understands anything anymore -- just look at drivers going 25 places down the grid," he is quoted by Italy's Autosprint. "We must become more humble to try to bring the show back to the circuit."

[alpiner]

Red Bull encouraged by Renault test progress

Red Bull has hinted that Renault is finally making progress, on the back of promising results from engine dyno testing in France since the Austrian Grand Prix.

The French car manufacturer has been evaluating a single cylinder prototype that has been prepared by consultant Mario Illien as part of a push led by Red Bull.

Although it is still early days for the development work, Red Bull boss Christian Horner said on Wednesday that there was cause for optimism after a difficult start to the campaign.

“I think there’s aspects that have been encouraging,” he said during a Red Bull media event. “But then how does that translate to full scale?

“It’s like going from the wind tunnel onto the circuit at that stage. But yes, there have been some encouraging results on the test bed.”

Long lead times

Although the promise from Viry-Chatillon is welcome, Horner is equally well aware that it will still take time for any improvements to find their way on to the track.

“They are working hard behind the scenes and coming out with some interesting concepts,” he said.

“The problem in the engine world is everything is long lead time. You test as a single cylinder first before you go into a V6 format.

“They are obviously still working on that single cylinder format which means the lead time to any V6 is several months away. But we are hopeful of seeing something before the end of the year.”

Pushing for 2015

Although Red Bull accepts its world title hopes are over for this year, Horner feels there is still value in pushing engine development as hard as possible – to get new bits on board for 2015.

“We certainly feel it would be an advantage to get it on the car this year, because at least we’re learning about the characteristics.

“In reality this year is compromised anyway for us so it’s important to use the time constructively to put together a better package for next year.”

http://www.motorspor...test-progress/?

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

JULY 9, 2015
Manufacturers push back on engine cost cap plan

 
Mercedes and Ferrari are hitting back at efforts to cap engine costs in formula one.

 

Teams struggling for mere survival, like Force India, Lotus and Sauber, currently pay hefty engine bills to the tune of EUR 17-22 million per season.

 

It is significantly more in the new 'power unit' era than they were paying in the V8-powered past.

 

"The engines are the most decisive cost driver," agrees Sauber's Monisha Kaltenborn.

 

She said that in the normally-aspirated era, F1 got the per-season cost down to about $14 million per season.

 

"We wanted to go further down and (instead) we've gone in the wrong direction," Kaltenborn added.

 

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport, however, says the FIA has reacted to the problem and vowed to cap the engine cost for private teams at just $12m per season.

 

But Mercedes and Ferrari are fighting back.

 

"We take the FIA's request seriously," said team boss Toto Wolff. "The current price is calculated according to our original business model.

 

"If it is to go down now, we would need to sharpen our pencils again."

 

And Ferrari's Maurizio Arrivabene insisted: "We cannot ask for less than what it costs us."

 

But the newly-knighted former Williams technical boss and co-owner Sir Patrick Head reportedly thinks the manufacturers' prices are so high because they are recouping the cost of developing the new technology.

 

Kaltenborn said: "We never wanted these engines. It was the car manufacturers who wanted them so they were forced onto us. So they can't charge us for the development costs as well.

 

"It is their image promotion, not ours," she argues.

 

Za dogodine FIA mora da postavi uslov za homologaciju motora da se oni ne mogu prodavati timovima za vise od $5M po sezoni. Kome se ne svidja neka pakuje kofere i dovidjenja.

 

Svi do jednog ce proizvodjaci pristati.

[alpiner]

Power and horsepower

Bernie Ecclestone keeps banging on to his house-trained media that there is an urgent need to change the F1 engine rules. This has been going on for more than a year and it is clear that no-one is really listening. The F1 Strategy Group talks itself round and round in circles and little really changes. So what is being achieved, if anything? The only conclusion that I have been able to come up with, which fits the facts, is that Bernie feels that his control of the sport is threatened and he is keeping everyone guessing, by constantly talking of change. Throwing in flash-bang grenades hither and thither to confuse. If there was no uncertainty about the future, perhaps more manufacturers would come in and, allied to the other big companies, would be in a position to push the sport around more.

In truth, this is already happening because Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull between them control nine of the 10 teams. They have been able to demand more money and more political say than they ever had in the past and Ecclestone was forced to give them what they wanted, in order to get them into line with a commercial agreement to go from 2010 to 2020. He would probably argue that he is protecting the sport from big corporations, but then he is working for a company that is sucking value out of the business and giving nothing back.

The need for control meant that there is now the deeply unfair situation in which the big teams get way more than the independents. Other manufacturers might come in if the others had not had the head-start that they have had, but one must also consider the possibility that they are staying away because they don’t like way the sport is run. Catching up is possible if there is the will to do so.

These are all elements that the sport should look at, as it plans for the future.

The engine regulations were formulated for a reason, in league with the car manufacturers, who were asked what they wanted to see in terms of technology, so to argue that the rules are keeping them out of the sport is rather eccentric. They got what they wanted and the price is irrelevant to those who can afford it, because they need to invest in the same kind of R&D one way or another. There are no restrictions on spending in F1, simply a restriction on what new parts can be applied to the power units at any one point. This is restrictive, but not THAT restrictive. It does what it was designed to do and stops an “arms race” of spending developing and the use of daft things such as qualifying engines and circuit-specific power units, while still allowing the engines to be developed. The fact that the other manufacturers cannot match Mercedes is because they were not as well-prepared and do not have the resources nor the brainpower to close the gap. But they will close the gap in time.

So why does Bernie keep on talking the sport down when he is supposed to be the promoter?

Changing the rules to go back to gas-guzzling noisy old engines might be cheaper, but that would likely drive away manufacturers and with them would go most of the money that comes to F1 outside the TV revenues and race fees. It would, of course, give the bigger teams the advantage because they have more money and more resources to build the best cars. So all it would likely do would be to exacerbate the current problem of having one dominant team. The thing that makes for the best racing is mature regulations, where finding a big advantage is almost impossible. That also reduces costs because most of the possible research has been done and so there’s not much left to try.

OK, Bernie doesn’t like the engine noise, but at nearly 85 years of age, he has lived through a series of different engine formulae and he knows that really what difference does noise really make? Fans will still come if there is a reason to come; if the price is right and the fans feel that the sport respects them. They are turned off by high prices of tickets, the switch to pay-TV and the desire of those in power to push them ever further away from the cars and the people. Noise also probably stops some people coming to races.

The cars today have around 900 horsepower and they do the same lap times as the previous cars (give or take). They accelerate wonderfully, and the braking is spectacular. They are still driven by the world’s best drivers (with perhaps one or two exceptions) and F1 is still a great spectacle.

The primary problem remains that the sport is not working for its own good.

Many worry about sport’s migration to payTV and argue that sport is a cultural activity that belongs to everyone and thus ought to be available to as many people as possible and not just those who can afford to pay. Switching to payTV means smaller audiences, less visibility and the disappearance of the role of sport as an inspiration for youngsters and ultimately less participation both in terms of players and spectators.

If Bernie wants to save the sport therefore perhaps it would be wiser to get rid of the current owners and get someone who cares.

And who cares most about the sport in the longer term? The manufacturers perhaps?

https://joesaward.wo...nd-horsepower/?