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#46 YC

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Posted 23 October 2002 - 07:52

aenima:
Dok 5th nudi odlicna pitanja u vezi elite, Emilija odbija da preispita svog autora koji je svoje vidjenje pisao u 19 veku(!); od kad se prvo promenila elita, a onda i njeni (modni) znaci i znacenja. Ko je modni konzument 19-og veka, a ko 20-og (ili 21-og, sto bi bilo daleko zanimljivije)? Jovana pokazuje na svom primeru da je "znak" dostupan. Ja se na svojoj strani pitam koji je znacenje "elitnog" odevnog znaka kada i srednja klasa moze da ga priusti (i klasa emigranata sto je vec posebna tema i kategorija). Kao test za misljenje da je elita ista na Zapadu i Istoku, utvrditi znacenje/modnost/elitnost GAP-a u:  New Yorku, Beogradu, Moskvi i nekom gradu u Utah (Juti, kazem :wink:

Ima raznih vrsta elita na Zapadu i Istoku. Ali izmedju njih nema bas mnogo razlike: finansijska elita, uslovno receno intelektualna elita, sportska, show biz ....

Ja ne gledam na brand samo kao elitni ili nelitni znak. Osim toga ima elitnih i elitnih brandova. Imas odelo za 2.000 USD sto neko ko ima pristojnu platu moze da kupi, ali imas i odelo za 10.000 USD sto mogu da plate samo oni bas bogati. I ono od 2.000 i ono od 10.000 je dokaz statusa i platezne moci, svuda, kod tebe, u Londonu, Parizu, Beogradu.

Nego nije mi jasno zasto bi ti postavljala pitanje da li klasa emigranata moze da prisuti znak ili ne ? I zasto bi to bila neka posebna kategorija?

Ja kada kupujem na primer odela za posao, kupujem samo brandove (naravno ne od 10.000 jer toliko nemam) zato sto smatram da kupujem kvalitet. Nisam dovoljno bogat da bih kupovao jeftine stvari.

ps.Gap nigde nije elitni znak osim mozda u Bocvani :wink:

[ Izmena poruke: YC na dan 2002-10-23 13:16 ]

#47 my5thnickname

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Posted 23 October 2002 - 22:48

upozorenje : ovo nema veze sa vec tesko obolelom temom / ***preskocite***

odjavljivanje sa IndyKratom / svadjalicom u potrazi za sebi slicnom svadjalicom / kontinju po raznim t/r/opicima [ moj glas iz off,a desperantno : molim vas, banujte nas, na format read-only ako je nekako moguce, ali nas nemojte brisati ] :roll:

Tebe to bas kad u'vati ne pusta, je li?


Ne racunajuci jos i la cause premiere, nikada me nece pushtiti sto znaci da ti nikada, ali nikada, recju nikada, necu opr&zab sto si se koristio Emilinim navodima, pa taman oni bili i tacni. / sto oni uglavnom i jesu samo u slucajevima kada dokumentarno i bez svojih blagorodnih tumacenja prenosi delove necijih / malo prasnjavih / objavljenih dohvata / ali taj doprinos -za mene- nije vredan svadjanja sa njom /.

Toliko sam ti se strasno zamerio samo zato sto se razlikujemo u pogledu na otprilike jednu jedinu stvar od svih onih koje smo dosad uspeli da prodiskutujemo?


Deda Indy, nista mi nismo prodiskutovali, tu i tamo pipnuli po nesto i to je sve. Takodje se ni po cemu nismo ni slozili nesto narocito, moje bi se ponasanje pre moglo opisati kao izbegavanje simuliranog svadjanja sa tobom, uzivanje u tvojim duhovitostima / odakle i spremnost da privremeno zaboravim na one razloge /, i svesno primenjivanje grubih virtualnih poteza u po mene kriticnim trenutcima. Takodje i neka vrsta bespredmetnog ganuca sa moje strane, obzirom da ti nije dovoljan samo free-sokic, vec 'oces na silu i free-substance.
[ Hm, hm, mislila sam da je to ocigledno. ]






Do te mere da si me uclanila u drustvo bolida?


Pa nisam, mada si u nekim situacijama bio privremeno na listi kandidata, ali sada - kad toliko insistiras na toj meri, medju vama zajednicka je i bol. :grin:


LU, jako si me razocarala.


OndaK, ipak si ceznutljivo kontemplisao o wake-up & make-up Lue ?!? :grin:

#48 my5thnickname

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 20:19

YC:
ps.Gap nigde nije elitni znak osim mozda u Bocvani :wink:


Y&Co., juce sam ti kucala jedan duuugacak i ne-ekstreman :wink: odgovor na ovu tvoju konstataciju, vrlo zanimljivu za proucavanje odnosa mode i nas / Serbs /. Nazalost, doslo je do totalnog picvajza u tekst-boxu i ono sto je preostalo nije bilo vredno slanja.
Ako pohvatam odbegle zice tog oparanog teksta, mozda se i pojavi jednom.

#49 my5thnickname

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 20:21

B O D Y A R CH I T E C T U R EPosted Imageby Lucy Orta

Social engineering

By Pierre Restany


The staging of a social bond is the common denominator linking Lucy Orta's different projects and perfectly reflects her transverse approach to poetic expression. Lucy Orta lives in Paris and is married to Argentinean artist Jorge Orta. Trained as a fashion designer, she has, since 1992, brilliantly addressed issues of relational aesthetics, her principal field of intervention being the personal space of the individual fighting for survival in adverse conditions. Her Refuge Wear and Nexus Architecture interventions are effective tools in the struggle against exclusion and combine architecture, body art, street theatre, fashion, social therapy, formal poetry and ideological activism. The titles of her principal projects, which function both as social scenarios and art works, speak for themselves : Nexus Architecture, Refuge Wear, Modular Architecture, Commune Communicate, Citizen Platform.




 

A versatile artist, she has used her training as a fashion designer in the creation of Collective Wear, pieces of flexible, modular architecture which serve as genuine individual or collective survival shelters. These textile structures, instantly erected into corporal architecture using a system of pockets and zips, combine various synthetic fibres, technical weaves and natural materials on lightweight carbon fibre armatures. Lucy Orta's classic piece of shelter wear, “Habitent”, created in 1992, is a waterproof jacket which converts into a shelter.


 
 
Lucy Orta's creations cater for the urban homeless as well as adventurous nature lovers with a taste for extreme conditions. Her shelter wear projects are designed to enable spontaneous interactive communication. Using the whole range of shelter wear, sensitizes one physically and emotionally to the problems of survival in underprivileged zones of the metropolitan jungle. Such prototypes have been exhibited at the Salvation Army Headquarters in Paris, 1993.
For six years Lucy Orta's performances have demonstrated her tent wear garments and collective clothes in a wide range of environments in central Paris, the suburbs and in the Metro, and also at the Venice Biennale in 1995 and the Johannesburg Biennale in 1997. She works in the field, in the context of daily social promiscuity, weaving the delicate fibre of primary human communication.



 

 
The resulting creations, both poetic and functional, breathe new life into seemingly outmoded concepts of activism and social solidarity. One of her recent performances, at the Forum Saint-Eustache des Halles in Paris in March 1997, was entitled “All in One Basket : a reflection on hunger and food waste”. The idea for the project came in summer 1996, when she saw television coverage of French farmers tipping trailers of fruit on to the roads in protest against European Community agricultural legislation. Profoundly disturbed by these images, Lucy Orta realised that on a less spectacular but daily level the Paris market traders were also dumping fruit and vegetables at the close of the markets. She decided something had to be done and this was what she came up with. A buffet was set up for passers-by in the Les Halles quarter of Paris, serving food thrown away at the close of the market and cooked in a mobile kitchen by the chef of a famous local restaurant. The event was a masterpiece of relational aesthetics, without the slightest hint of demagogy. The people of Les Halles, rich and poor alike, instead of being invited to a soup kitchen, took part in a demonstration of gastronomic recycling. Clearly, nothing can hold back Lucy Orta's “relational” efforts and her ongoing work on new “survival kits”, interactive structures and humanitarian projects.
 


 
 

For someone with such an acute and determined sense of social responsibility, the problems are endless : Aids, famine, inter-tribal genocide, environmental causes, the fight against pollution of all kinds. The public immediately recognises the fundamental and their collective interest and utility. It is not by chance that Lucy Orta, during barely five years of intense activity, has commanded the attention of those Parisian art critics with a heightened awareness of the questions raised by contemporary problems : Philippe Piguet, Jean-Michel Ribettes, Jérôme Sans and Paul Virilio. In conclusion, I quote Paul Virilio : “I recall that art has its origins in the body : dance and theatre, war paint and tatoos. Lucy Orta's work struck me as a style of rock painting inscribed on the body”.

Pierre Restany, Process of Transformation, Jean-Michel Place éditions, Paris 1998

#50 my5thnickname

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Posted 26 October 2002 - 05:54

Pojednostaviti objasnjavanje stvari ne obavezuje nuzno na uprostaciti pojmove,  koristeci se pri tome ocigledno napabircenim ostacima tudjih prevazidjenih ideja i sistematski pogresnom zloupotrebom parcica ovdasnjih postova, a to je ono na cemu Emili Bolidesku uporno i dalje insistira na ovoj  temi moda koju je iz ne razumem kog razloga pokrenula / ne bi li nam svima ogadila tu rec, najverovatnije /.

Ono sto mene sprecava da odgovaram na toliku kolicinu bezobraznog lupetanja nije naravno to lupetanje, vec odvratan nacin na koji to radi Emili Bolidesku, moja strucna dijagnoza je da ova tema ne odgovara profilu njenog pisanja, go  to This is my America/pod gornje razno, tamo se u povodu jednog visoko-moralnog chichice Chomskog u mekanoj flanelskoj kariranoj kosulji dohvata u kostac po pitanju ozbiljnih pitanja. Emili, bices i vise nego dobrodosla, veruj mi. 

Moda je za povrsne i neozbiljne, za one koji zive za nju i od nje, sklona je onima koji su njoj skloni etc etc.
Nema ama bas nikakve veze sa tobom. I dokazano prezivljava. 

PS
Ja jos nigde nisam procitala da je na forumu u toku otvaranje b92 free juniverziteta na kome ima svi dzaba da radimo na usko definisanoj grupi socijalnih problema, a Teknokrat i Emili  u paru, naizmenicno da nas nadoziravaju elektrosokovima i ananasima, kao i besplatnim [i]strucnim[/] anamnezama trenutnog stanja naseg intelektualnog i dusevnog zdravlja, svaki put kad odbijemo da se drzimo njihove zadate ideje. :razz:
Tako da cemo svi na kraju nositi iskljucivo ruzne dzempere sa aplikacijom  'Mnoa nam otvara trece oko' proizvedene u 'Cvijeti Dabic'  / donacija novog vlasnika, Jugo-Korejanca, bivseg visokog sluzbenika spoljnih poslova /,  te nam nece ni na kraj pameti padati da razmisljamo sta rade tamo neki haj zaponeski modni kuturijeri. :razz:

O boze, spasi mene.
O boze, spasi Modu.
O boze spreci Aenimu da se gnjavi sa bolidima.


Da li je ovo karika koja nedostaje ?

#51 Sioran

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Posted 26 October 2002 - 06:37

fifti, ne mogu zaista vise da pratim tvoje autisticne monologe. sedi, uzmi nesto za smirenje, i pre nego sto ovde pocnes da istovarujes sve fajlove sa svog racunara, razmisli da li uopste imas nesto da nam kazes. i leba ti nemoj vise da prijavljujes svako svoju polumisao, posto je vec kod mene pocela da se javlja zebnja da cu u sledecem tvom postu citati o tome kad si ti zadnji put piskila i kakila.


no cisto da razjasnim svoju poziciju onima koji su za razliku od tebe u stanju da ponesto procesiraju:

1) ja nisam rekla da je moda losa - naprotiv, moda je verovatno neohodna. ja sam rekla da moda ima svoju funkciju te da zbog te funkcije postoji. ali i hitna pomoc ima svoju funkciju pa niko ne misli da je zbog toga losa, naprotiv.

2) ja nisam rekla da je lako biti kreator (niti bilo koja druga karika u lancu visoke mode). naravno da nije lako - za to je potrebno znanje i talenat kao i za sve ostalo, utoliko pre ako je rec o vrhunskom kreatoru.

3) nisam rekla da u lepom oblacenju ima neceg loseg ili da to treba da se izbegava. rekla sam da je nama po pravilu lepo ono sto nose oni koji su po statusu iznad nas, a da ako hoces da te drugi cene, to generalno ne treba da izbegavas.

#52 my5thnickname

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Posted 26 October 2002 - 17:03

rekla-kazala :grin:

#53 aenima

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Posted 27 October 2002 - 02:39

Znate kako je Bowie najavio pesmu "Fashion"?
"Right piece of clothing will get you through any situation":grin:

Na kraju rece da bi izgledao tafR od celavaca u bendu (komada 2), samo da navuce svoju koznu jaknu koju je pre 20 leta kupio sa Iggyjem u New Yorku. Ali:
"But then again...I would look more like Patti Smith!" :grin: Zasto se svi surovo sale sa anarhicnom Patti?

_________________
*can you see?*

[ Izmena poruke: aenima na dan 2002-10-27 02:41 ]

#54 Indy

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Posted 27 October 2002 - 02:51

[ Izmena poruke: indy na dan 2002-10-28 07:14 ]