41 replies to this topic

[Dzoni_m]

Pa da, i svako bi imao po tri tima, kao sto sada Ferrari zeli. I opet na pocetak. 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Eh da, ali bi Mercedes mozda imao 6 timova...

[staneC]

Dok je bilo V10 i V8, OK.
Ovako, nema ko da napravi jeftin customers motor.

Ma ne može hibrid, ali može torbo V6 bez mgu, fu, jbga, odj dodataka. Samo, da je limitiran, da ne bude pišanja po hibridima. Biti če malko slabijih performansi, ali mnooogo jeftiniji. Pa ko voli...
OK, OK, dvotirna F1, ali niko ne bi give a fuck, ako bi bilo više timova u vrhu.
Danas je Williams tu samo za popunjavanje mesta, a nekad je bio sve i svja u F1. Ako Mclaren pukne sa Hondom (a nadam se, da neče), izgubičemo ikonu F1. Ferrari i Mercedes. To če biti sve. Ostali, da kruže do kraja utrke.

Edited by staneC, 07 April 2016 - 17:48.

[staneC]

Mada, kako se ravijaju stvari sa Tesla 3, F1E za 10 godina, sa zvučnicima na zadnjem krilu. Da se čuje :-)

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Pa ne bi bilo vise timova u vrhu jer ili bi taj alternativni motor bio bolji od hibrida (sto nece proizvodjaci dozvoliti) ili bi bio slabiji (sto znaci da oni koji ga voze nemaju sanse da budu u vrhu). Nemoguce je potrefiti formulu po kojima bi performanse dve potpuno razlicite koncepcije pod istim uslovima bile ravnopravne.

 

A ako krenemo u menjanje uslova (jednima dozvolimo dolivanje goriva drugima ne, jedni imaju laksi bolid i vise DF od drugog) onda je to vec ozbiljan cirkus u najavi.

[staneC]

Houston, we have a problem. Jer u sadašnjem sistemu, proizvodjači isto tako neče dopustiti, da jih kupci peglaju sa njihovim motorima.
Hebi ga, da su svi potrefeli motor ko Mercedes, bilo bi fenomenalno. A nisu.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

To se sve moze resiti pravilima homologacije, da FIA ima muda kao sto nema. Jednostavno, maticnoj ekipi nije dozvoljeno da koristi nista sto nije vec prosledila svim svojim klijentima. Tako svi Mercedesovi timovi imaju identican hardver i softver, niko nema prednost.

 

Ako se to Mercedesu ne svidja, ne moraju da se takmice pod pokroviteljstvom FIA. Eno im Naskar pa nek izvole tamo, a njihove klijente ce da snabdeva Ferari ili vec ko drugi.

[Dzoni_m]

Opet software-ska implementacija ne moze biti ista, osim ako ne zelis da maticna fabrika mapira motore i onda da timovi nemaju pristup upravljackoj jedinici. Analogija sa programiranjem: imas SDK ja u njemu umem da napravim digitron, a ti ceo software za kontrolu nuklearne centrale. Jebiga, alat nam je isti, ali znanje nije. To vazi i za ovo. Komponente su iste, mogucnosti su iste ali implementacija je na timu. E tu je ko ima vise inzinjera a i fabricki tim ce uvek da razvije ono sto njemu treba i daje on to drugima nije problem, ali manjem timu mozda to uopste nije potrebno. To sto bi zbir komponenti bio identican, rezultat uopste ne mora biti. 

 

Ovo nije samo nalij goriva toliko i evo ti set korektivnih parametara (mislim nisu toliko ni oni stari motori bili prosti) ali ovo je sada potpuno druga dimenzija. Jednostavno, ili cemo imati DTM ili cemo imati dominaciju i cesto menjanje pravila kako bi se ta dominacija prekinula.

Edited by Dzoni_m, 07 April 2016 - 21:47.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Okej, onda posto je ECU svakako vec standardizovana, onda neka FIA standardizuje i softver - svi timovi bez obzira na proizvodjaca motora ima da koriste identicno mapiranje motora. Tako je u Indikaru gde oba proizvodjaca koriste potpuno identican standardizovan softver.

[Dzoni_m]

Ok, dakle vendor lock-in pristup. Onda se vracamo na DTM. To nije F1. Dakle fabricki tim ce da dizajnira auto i motor u paketu, tu spasa nema. Taj pogonski paket prodaje identican kako jeste svim zainteresovanima. I sta onda? Onda i oni naprave isti auto. Neces da imas 3 FErrari tima ili 3 Mercedes tima, zvanicano, vec ces nezvanicno da ih imas, samo ce farba da bude razlicita. Tih serija ima koliko zelis. Indikar koji spominjes, ali da li nam treba jos jedan Indikar? Shvatam ja da se tebi to svidja, ali to onda nije F1. 

 

Pricamo o F1. Kraljici auto sporta. Mesto gde se takmice vozaci ali i konstruktori. Serije gde je prednost na jednim ili drugim vec postoje. Zasto napraviti od F1 to? Ako treba da biram izmedju A i B timova i ispadanja garazista zbog nezatvorene finansijske konstrukcije, i druge opcije serija F1 biram prvo. Ko nema pare nemoj ni da ulazi u sport. Cak i ovaj format nije sporan ni ovi motori niti bilo sta, problem je menadzment a to ni ustrojstvom koje predlazes nece ispraviti. 

 

Rasprava je svakako dobrodosla i konstruktivna je, samo mi je krivo da iako se ne slazemo, nece se naci niko ko treba da procita jer navijace odavno ne zarezuju ni 2%

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Pazi, ti sigurno da neces nikada gledati Ferari sa Kosvortovim motorom u F1. Ono sto Berni predlaze je upravo to, da se napravi motor koji ce biti jeftiniji, jednostavniji i konkurentniji (na osnovu budzenja pravila na stranu timova koji ga koriste), i koji nece biti dozvoljen proizvodjacima da kopiraju nego ce se moci nabavljati od spoljasnjeg nezavisnog nabavljaca koga aminuju FIA i FOM. Znaci isti za svakog ko se odluci da ga koristi, a oni koji ga ne budu koristili ce biti stavljeni u podredjeni polozaj i nikad nece imati priliku da konkurisu za sampionat.

 

To ti je siguran nacin da se iz F1 oteraju i Mercedes i Reno sa sve fabrickim ekipama, i Honda (s tim sto McL ostaje kao nezavisna ekipa) ali i Ferari za koga Berni kaze da je jednako sa F1 i zato ih i placa vise nego druge. Jedino ako bas Ferari ne bude taj "nezavisni" snabdevac motorima, sto nas opet vraca na problem #1 a to je da su fabricke ekipe u prednosti nad ekipama koje motore kupuju i zbog cega je i nastala cela ova tarapana, jer:

 

Houston, we have a problem. Jer u sadašnjem sistemu, proizvodjači isto tako neče dopustiti, da jih kupci peglaju sa njihovim motorima.
Hebi ga, da su svi potrefeli motor ko Mercedes, bilo bi fenomenalno. A nisu.

 

Zato mislim da bi najbezbolnije resenje bilo homologacija motora, standardizovan FIA softver za mapiranje motora isti za sve proizvodjace (pa nek se oni hardverski prilagodjavaju), propisana cena po kojoj proizvodjaci mogu da prodaju motore klijentima za celu sezonu (ne po pogonskoj jedinici, vec za godinu) i obaveza da svi klijenti imaju na raspolaganju isto sto i fabricka ekipa u isto vreme. Usput, ukinuti ogranicenje o broju motora po sezoni i sva ogranicenja za razvoj (hardvera, softver ostaje standardizovan).

 

Tako bi izbio proizvodjacima iz ruke adut da mogu da diriguju klijentima performanse (kao danas, sto fabricki Mercedesov motor ima ~ 40-50 konja vise od Mercedesa u Vilijamsovom ili Forsovom bolidu), sto je Berniju i Totu glavna briga, a i dalje bi to ostala F1 a ne GP2 gde svi koriste istu opremu.

 

Naravno, i dalje ostaje onaj glavni i najveci problem a to je neravnopravna raspodela novca i odlivanje istog van sporta. Sto je ustvari i glavni motiv za celu ovu halabuku koju je Berni podigao oko motora, jer on smatra da su danas u F1 proizvodjaci previse mocni i nedovoljno poslusni, i zeli da im potkrese krila ili ih cak i istera iz F1.

Edited by Rad-oh-yeah?, 08 April 2016 - 21:06.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

APRIL 13, 2016
Swedish backers rescue Sauber for now

Sauber has bucked the rumours by travelling to Shanghai this week for the Chinese grand prix.

In obvious financial trouble, it was said F1's Swiss team could have run out of money to be able to race in China, with staff also waiting for their March payments.

But international media sources say Sauber is definitely on site at the Shanghai International Circuit, the scene of this weekend's racing.

The Swedish evening tabloid Expressen claims Sauber is secure at least for China and Russia - the next two races - thanks to driver Marcus Ericsson's backers who have also paid team staff.

The report said the saviours are individuals connected to the Swedish companies Tetra Pak, a packaging company, and fashion brand H&M (Hennes & Mauritz).

But Ericsson's manager, Eje Elgh, would not confirm the news.

"I have to question the credibility of the information that is grabbed completely from the air," he told the Swedish broadcaster Viasat.

"The project of Marcus Ericsson has nothing to do with either Hennes & Mauritz or Tetra Pak," Elgh added.

"I cannot comment on Sauber's financial situation because I have no knowledge of it. I just know that they are working hard to solve the problems.

"The fact that the team is now in China to prepare in the best way for the weekend is proof that they are going to solve the crisis that has been around for some time," he said

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Marcus Ericsson says he is willing to swap chassis with struggling teammate Felipe Nasr ahead of the forthcoming Russian grand prix.

Amid Sauber's obvious financial troubles, Brazilian Nasr claims his personal performance struggle so far in 2016 is due to a problem with his chassis.

"I am 100 per cent sure the car is not right," he is quoted by Brazil's UOL after China.

"I'm struggling all the time but he (Ericsson)'s happy with the car from the start. I drove that (Ericsson's) car in Barcelona and I was happy too," Nasr added.

Swede Ericsson told UOL he would be happy to swap cars at Sochi in order to confirm or rule out Nasr's suspicions.

"Why not? I'm willing," he said. "I wouldn't mind. I will make this proposal and see what he says."

Ericsson suspects that he is simply out-performing Nasr on merit.

"I was already stronger at the end of last year," he said. "I have worked very hard in the preseason to be even stronger this year and I have confidence in the team and the car.

"I think I have clearly shown who is the strongest driver," Ericsson added.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Sergio Marchionne believes Alfa Romeo should pursue internal options for any potential return to Formula 1 rather than looking at existing teams such as Sauber.

Earlier this year Marchionne, the CEO of Alfa's parent company Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, made it clear he wanted the brand back in F1 in some form. With the prospect of Alfa's return gathering traction, it has been linked of late with a potential takeover of Sauber. The Swiss-based team is currently encountering financial difficulties that have resulted in its staff being paid their salaries a few days late for the past two months.

Ferrari president Marchionne, however, has suggested if Alfa Romeo does make a comeback, it will do so either as part of the Fiat Chrysler organisation, or with the Scuderia itself.

When asked about the speculation regarding an Alfa Romeo/Sauber tie-up, Marchionne told Autosport: "There are perhaps other alternatives for Alfa if they wanted to come back into the race. It is a very close cousin of Ferrari, and you should start looking at your family first before you start looking outside."

It is now 31 years since the Alfa name last graced F1, competing as a works team between 1979 and 1985 but failing to win any races. Before that, Nino Farina and Juan Manuel Fangio used Alfa Romeo cars to win the first two F1 world championships in 1950 and '51. Its other major F1 programme was as engine supplier to Brabham from 1976-79, in a partnership that brought two grand prix wins with Niki Lauda in '78.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Nasr dobija novu sasiju:
 

Felipe Nasr will use a new chassis for the fourth race of the season, Sauber has confirmed.

The Brazilian driver has been unhappy with the balance of his car since the beginning of the season. He finished 20th last time out in China after a power steering problem in practice hampered his pre-race preparations.

“I still hope we can sort out the issues I had during the last race weekends,” he said. “I am confident that the team is doing its best and everyone is working hard.”

Following the Chinese Grand Prix Nasr said he was “still struggling with the same issues that I’ve been having in the last couple of events” in the car. “I still feel that we have a lot to do in the car to bring back the pace,” he added.

Nasr had one of his strongest races of the season in last year’s Russian Grand Prix. “I had a great race weekend in Sochi,” he said. “We took every opportunity we could and maximised what we had. In the end I was classified in sixth, which was my second best result in Formula One.”

Sauber is yet to score any points so far this season.