35 replies to this topic

[alpiner]

 

The next details about F1's potential new engine formula for 2021 are now emerging.

Following a meeting with current and potential engine suppliers, FIA president Jean Todt revealed last week that the plan is to make the current 'power units' simpler, cheaper and louder for the future.

New F1 sporting boss Ross Brawn is also on board, declaring: "Before we think about a sustainable car concept for formula one, the engine must be clarified.

"Everything else depends on it."

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport has the first details.

Correspondent Michael Schmidt said the early frontrunner for the 2021 engine concept is a V6 twin-turbo producing 1200 horse power -- and missing altogether is the current 'MGU-H' technology.

The report said it is also possible that the batteries and turbochargers may be standardised, with the hybrid element of the engine to simply be KERS.

F1 driver turned pundit for German television Sky, Marc Surer, said: "We have two problems.

"First, the FIA does not want to abandon hybrid engines. But the single-turbo removes the sound.

"The single biggest problem with F1 at the moment is the sound, and this is simply not solvable with one big turbo. We need two turbos.

"But then it becomes technically difficult to get energy from the exhaust. So the FIA may need to sacrifice the MHU-H and offer the fans a better sound."

(GMM)

 

[alberto.ascari]

Prevedeno na ljudski, hibrid kakvog znamo danas, je slepa ulica, ako se ne varam.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Jedino sto ce postici s ovim je da ce ponovo jedan proizvodjac bolje pogoditi koncept od ostalih i imacemo dominaciju nekoliko sezona. Ono sto dovodi do izjednacavanja performansi je dugorocna stabilnost u pravilima.

 

Sadasnjim motorima ne fali apsolutno nista, jedino sto su trebali da dodaju je maksimalna dozvoljena cena po jedinici za timove-kupce, i obaveza za proizvodjace da snabdevaju minimum 3 tima svaki. Najveci problem ovih motora je cena, sve ostalo moze da prodje.

[Hertzog]

Nedostaje im malo vise buke

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Pa to ce nedostajati kakav god turbo da je u pitanju, cim imas nesto stavljeno na izduv sto uzima energiju iz njega. Ako naprave turbo manje efikasnim gubitak buke ce biti manji, ali ce opet biti gubitak, a motor od 1600 kubika svakako vec u startu pravi manju buku nego motor od 3500 kubika. Tako je bilo i za vreme one prve turbo-ere 80-tih.

 

Nego, ako je buka jedini problem, ja predlazem povratak na 28-litarske redne cetvorocilindricne motore, kad je bal nek je maskenbal:

 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Dr Helmut Marko says formula one desperately needs new engine rules for 2021.

The Austrian is a leading F1 official at Red Bull, the energy drink owned company that has two teams on the grid and is promoter of the Austrian grand prix.

He told Salzburger Nachrichten newspaper that F1's current "nonsensical power unit formula" is "wrong for F1".

"Formula one needs an engine that is simple, loud and with a cost not exceeding ten million dollars," Marko said.

The report claims that if F1 proceeds with its current engines beyond 2020, Red Bull could quit the sport.

Marko said that is because the engines are hurting F1's popularity, which has been "drastically decreasing" since the start of the current rules in 2014.

"The power units are an incredible technical achievement that does not matter to the public and puts the driver in the background.

"It is madness if you need 20 million and more for an engine," he said. "Above all it is irrelevant, as there is nothing like this technology in production cars."

And Marko said the successful carmakers like Mercedes and Ferrari are currently in a position to "blackmail" other teams. "We were close to getting no engine in 2015," he said.

"The rules must be such that Cosworth and Ilmor can successfully and commercially make an engine, so that whoever wants one - whether us or Sauber or Toro Rosso - can buy one," he said.

He said the current rules have "almost driven McLaren to ruin. The sponsors run away.

"It is simply the complexity of these regulations that make it so difficult for a world-class company like Honda to be competitive," Marko insisted.

And so he puts it in new F1 owner Liberty Media's hands to fix the problem beyond 2020.

"We are assured by Liberty that they are serious. Ross Brawn works in this direction, because even a super engineer like him sometimes does not even understand."

 

I opet - ako je cena problem to se da resiti administrativnim putem. Proizvodjaci umesto da pokusavaju da zarade na motorima neka troskove otpisu na marketing, sto takmicenje u F1 i jeste (kad ste zadnji put negde, bilo gde, videli reklamu za Ferari?), neka FIA ogranici maksimalnu cenu po komadu PU i dovidjenja. Taman je Ferari sustigao Mercedesa, za ove tri godine ce im se i Reno pridruziti (a nadam se i Honda) i onda cemo imati jos jedno mesanje karata i ponovo 5+ godina dominacije jednog tima koji bude najbolje ubo nova pravila.

[Downforce]

 

 

"Above all it is irrelevant, as there is nothing like this technology in production cars."

 

 

Rece covek cija firma pravi secernu vodicu...

 

Vi onda stavite secer pozadi...mozda vam da krila.

[leone]

"Above all it is irrelevant, as there is nothing like this technology in production cars."

 

 

Moze da bira je li lazov ili je zlonamjeran, jer ne vjerujem da je neobavijesten. Nadrkani luzer.

 

 

  More details of Mercedes-AMG's F1-powered hypercar emerge

 

Laurence EdmondsonF1 Editor

 

 

Mercedes-AMG's plans to put a Formula One engine in a road-legal hypercar are progressing nicely, with its 1000bhp drivetrain revealed to the press at the Nurburgring 24 Hours last weekend.

Known as Project One, the car will be powered by a V6 turbo hybrid based on the same power unit used by Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas in this year's W08 F1 car. The road-legal version will have its redline capped at 11,000rpm, but will still feature the same turbocharged 90-degree V6 engine, capable of producing roughly 700bhp on its own.

The MGU-K will offer an additional 120KW of power to the rear axle under acceleration while the MGU-H is rated at 80KW and can be used to combat turbo lag as well as to charge the power unit's energy store (which is four times bigger than on the F1 car). On top of that, Project One will also feature two 120KW electric motors on the front axle, giving it all-wheel drive capability that the Formula One car does not have.

 

It will be incredibly efficient for a hypercar, with AMG boss Tobias Moers boasting a thermal efficiency figure of 43 per cent -- an unprecedented level of efficiency for any road car. But even with all its Formula One technology, Moers claims it will not require a team of mechanics to keep it running. "It will be a street car," he said. "You keep it plugged in in the garage, you fill it with fuel -- that's it."

 

Autocar reports a price tag of £2.4 million while Auto Express quotes a production run of 275 -- the vast majority of which are already spoken for. Hamilton is due to be involved in the development of the car's handling and the unveiling of a production version is expected at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September.

 

 

http://www.espn.co.u...hypercar-emerge

 

Obaska sto vec godinma imamo Ferrarijeve i MCL proizvode s F1 tehnologijom u svakdnevnoj upotrebi.

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

Ma pustite ga da ide u ... kuda hoće. Čovek mora da smara da bi postigao njegov cilj, al smaraće do 2021 godine znači naviknite se. Šta bi tek bilo da im je Ron dopustio Hondine PJ? Pa umro bi od infarkta 

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

AMuS: Opet se dotakla tema o PJ, predlažu se 1.6 litreni V6 biturbo s 1000 konjske snage. KERS se vraća, ERS i MGUH se odbacuju. Mercedes se opet meša u politiku sledeće generacije PJ i predlaže drugi KERS koji bi bio povezan na prednje točkove.
 

F1 engine 2021 will be 1.6 liters of V6 bi-turbo
The manufacturers are generally in agreement that the next drive source should be based on the architecture of the current engine for reasons of cost. So a six-cylinder turbo with 1.6 liters displacement. Instead of a large turbine, two turbochargers are supposed to provide the necessary boost to get over 1,000 hp. Hybrid technology is to be simplified. MGU-K yes, MGU-H no.
In the electric motors the spirits separate. They are to provide more power than before, so that they can be used as an overtaking aid. Mercedes therefore proposes a second KERS on the front axle. But then the weight comes into play. In general, you want to slim down the cars again. At the moment the Formula 1 carsClick here for the matching products on Amazon.de! with 728 kg are as hard as never.

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

Pat Symonds joins Formula 1's 2021 regulations task force

Pat Symonds has been brought on to help with the writing of Formula 1's future set of rules which will be introduced in 2021.

The former Williams tech boss joins a panel put together by Ross Brawn which will have the responsibility of shaping the sport's future.

"The group is currently four people but it will increase to 12," Symonds told Bild newspaper.

"We meet regularly in London and will try to use our experience for the next set of regulations.

"It's a very interesting task, and it's great to work with Ross again."

In addition to defining Formula 1's future engine platform, Brawn is also looking to reform the controversial system of grid penalties for technical problems, and ultimately to change the car design so that DRS is not necessary.

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

Andreas Haupt‏ @andihaupt1

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#F1: Liberty Media will reveal 2021 engine rules on 31st Oct. First framework of budget cap on Nov 7th. #AMuS:

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

F1 announces new engine format for 2021 with higher rev limit and hybrid changes
2021 F1 season
31st October 2017, 13:46
Keith Collantine


Formula One Management and the FIA has announced the planned changes to F1’s engine rules from 2021.

The sport will retain the basic configuration of the 1.6-litre V6 hybrid turbo power units which were introduced in 2014. However the recovery of power from waste heat via an MGU-H will be dropped in favour of more powerful kinetic energy generators (MGU-Ks).

From 2021 the rev limit will be raised by 3,000rpm to 18,000rpm. This is intended to improve the sound generated by the engines.

More parts will be standardised in a bid to reduce costs and to make it easier for teams to switch between power units.

The intended specification of the 2021 power units is as follows:

• 1.6 Litre, V6 turbo hybrid
• 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound
• Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions
• Removal of the MGU-H
• More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing
• Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits
• Standard energy store and control electronics
• High Level of external prescriptive design to give ‘plug-and-play’ engine/chassis/transmission swap capability
• Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

This article will be updated.

 

Meh. Velik korak unazad, skidanje MGU-H znaci nekih 160 KS manje (doduse, bice delimicno kompenzovano iz SUS komponente - 18000 o/min), povratak na klasican KERS u stilu dugmeta za preticanje, uz jos jace ogranicenje potrosnje goriva - ako su dosad postojale primedbe da vozaci stede i "taksiraju" cekaj da vidis 2021...

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

Jeste velik korak unazad ali baš tako je trebala početi nova turbo/hibrid era. Sadašnje PJ su ektremno skupe, strani proizvođači nemaju nameru proizvoditi ovdašnje PJ i generalno F1 je išla ka pravcu koji je gotovo sahranio LMP1 (možda grešim).

 

Sadašnje PJ izgledaju ko da ih je napravila NASA, ako kontate šta hoću reći. 

 

Taksiranja je uvek bilo i uvek će biti, setimo se "zlatne ere" sredinom 1980-ih kada su gotovo svi ostajali bez goriva. U moderno doba motorsporta Formula E je najbolji primer, tamo vozači u sred dugačkog pravca dižu papučicu "gasa" radi štednje. Sličnu stvar viđamo u VECu (zbog silnih ERS uređaja). 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Cenu PJ je FIA mogla lako da regulise - kao obavezan uslov za homologaciju motora da postavi maksimalnu cenu po kojoj se oni prodaju klientima i obavezu da se pored fabricke snabdeva barem jos 3 ekipe (ako ima zainteresovanih). 

 

Proizvodjaci bi se bunili, i na kraju bi svi pristali. Gde ce Ferari ako ne u F1? Ipak je ucesce u F1 marketinski suvise znacajno za sve njih. Neka otpisu troskove na ime marketinga i sibaj dalje.