201 replies to this topic

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Pa ako Ferari zaista vise nije nipocemu poseban onda mi nije jasno zasto se bune i traze da se nastave tretirati posebno. Lepo ih placas prema ucinku na tabeli ko i sve ostale i aj' zdravo.

 

Ono sto mi je najludje je da pored Ferarija koji ubedljivo najvise dobija tog novca "na lepe oci" zarad toboznjeg istorijskog znacaja, po istom osnovu ali mnogo manje novca dobijaju i Mercedes, Red Bul (!), Meklaren i Vilijams. Dok Ferari uzme oko 100 milki, Mercedes i Red Bul dobiju oko 70 svaki, Meklaren 30 a Vilijams 10 - nezavisno od polozaja na tabeli sampionata. Mis'im, Red Bul je stvarno tim sa dugom i bogatom istorijom u F1, ubilo se.

 

Prema ovoj Bernijevoj semi Ferari je od FOM dobijao najvise para i kad je bio 4. na tabeli, vise od sampiona koji su takodje u grupi povlastenih (Mercedes, Red Bul).

 

Upravo je taj novac glavni kamen spoticanja ovde, gde Liberti zeli da ga podeli na ravne casti svim timovima. Trenutno svi (osim Hasa, s kojim je Berni onomad odbio da potpise ugovor) dobijaju od FOM po 30 milki, plus novac za plasman na tabeli (moras da uzmes makar jedan bod da bi se kvalifikovao, i onda se racuna klizno - sampion dobije nekih 65 miliona, desetoplasirani 15. Liberti zeli da zadrzi ovaj deo po ucinku na tabeli ali da ovo sto dobijaju povlasteni podeli svima jednako, pa bi tako umesto po 30 miliona timovima sledovalo po 60-tak svakom.

 

Za nekog poput Forsa ili Zaubera ta razlika je bukvalno pitanje opstanka.

[leone]

..."Da, zato sto je ovo"...

 

Aman, ja nijesam nigdje rakao da su isti, upravo zbog te razlike Ferrari dobija najvise, ono sto sam rekao da im izlazak iz F1 ni na kakav nacin nije umanjio profit i prestiz, koji se odnosio prvenstveno na BMW koji nije manje prestizan od Merca.

 

Poenta rasprave je da, po tebi, izlaskom iz F1 prozvodjaci vise gube nego sto dobijaju i tu se ne slazemo i naveo sam ti prijmere koji te demantuje iz freske proslosti. 

 

Da ne pomiljem onu apsurdnu trvdnju da ce se jednostrano odlucivati o novim pravilima.

 

​Sto se tice odnosa Liberty, timovi, i novca  evo kavo je trenutno stanje i oni kao Berni trpaju vise u svoje dzepove nego sto dijele timovima!! 

 

.... a growing sense of unease among the teams with the way Liberty is handling F1.

Team payments have gone down by a total of $43m for the third-quarter year on year. The teams are far from convinced about some of the actions Liberty have taken, and are concerned about the fact that there is little detail for now on their wider plans for the sport's future.

 

cijeli text 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/41963486

 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

I po drugi put - ako je tebi BMW ili Mercedes isto sto i Ferari, onda OK.

 

 

Inace, koliko je BMW zaista napustio trkanje:

 

 

 

 

Znaci svako se pozicionise tamo gde misli da mu je mesto i gde najbolje moze da mu se vrati ulozeno. Neko u F1, neko u Leman, neko u GT, neko u turing, neko u Naskar.

 

No, mozda ja zaista precenjujem Ferari, ako vec sami njegovi navijaci misle da nisu vise nivo za F1.

[alpiner]

Jako lepo razmišljam sa tuđim parama pa mislim da će Porsche ubrzo ući u F1. Ne vidim ništa logičnije za obe strane. 

 

Jutros kupio dobar pasulj na pijaci, bacio na sto da vidim šta kaže - to ima veze sa Maxovim produžetkom ugovora. E sad ako me je baba na pijaci zajebala..

 

Zamislite taj klasik Porsche-Ferrari u Spa ili Monzi. Marvelos

Edited by alpiner, 15 November 2017 - 07:02.

[Dzoni_m]

 

No, mozda ja zaista precenjujem Ferari, ako vec sami njegovi navijaci misle da nisu vise nivo za F1.

 

Ne, nego nece nista izgubiti (na profitu, prodaji) ako izadju iz F1, jer su vec slovo u kamenu u proizvodnji sportskih automobila. F1 Ferrariju NE TREBA ZARAD PROFITA. To je ono sto tupimo zube. 

 

Da li F1 treba Ferrari? Mozda da mozda ne, ali to vise nije F1, ali ako izadje i Mercedes i Reno, onda mogu slobodno da zatvore radnju. Tu moze samo F1 da izgubi proizvodjaci NE, jer pare ne zaradjuju u F1, vec u salonu automobila. 

[leone]

Po treci i zadnji put.

 

Nijesam izjednacio njednog proizvodjaca, svako za sebe i prema sopstvenim intresima, valjda je to jasno i bez naglasavanja. Uostalom, u prijedhodnom postu sam rekao da zbog RAZLIKE Ferrari dobija najvise.  Evo da se samocitiram: "Aman, ja nijesam nigdje rakao da su isti, upravo zbog te razlike Ferrari dobija najvise". Ali ti, kad ti cinjenice ne ogovaraju volis da se parvis zaboravan.

 

Predmet rasprave je vrlo uzak i jednostavan, da li napustanje F1 (nikakva druga takmicenja i uzaludno ti rastakanje teme raznim slicicama) negativno finasijski, prestizno ili na bilo koji nacin utice na onog ko je napustio?

 

Odgovor iz prakse je NE, za razliku od onog sto ti tvrdis da im ucesce u F1 mnogo vise donosi nego steti.

 

Da te podsjetim, rasprava je pocela od one smijesne tvrdnje o jednostranom donosenju novih pravila u F1.

 

Sve ostalo je spekulacija sto ce biti i kako ce biti i oce li uopste biti F1 ovakve kakva je danas 2021. Pregovori nijesu ni poceli.

 

Ende.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Leone, firme poput BMW, Tojote, Honde je ulaskom u F1 pokusavaju sebi da podignu rejting, i onda kada ukapiraju da su zagrizle vise nego sto mogu da progutaju podviju rep i vrate se tamo gde im je komotnije - u GT, Turing i slicno. Sa druge strane, Ferariju bi izlazak iz F1 i prelazak u GT bio spustanje za par stepenica nize. Ako to nije jasno, onda ne znam sta je jos jasno na ovom svetu.

 

A da svi oni do jednog, svaki u svom fahu, trkanje koriste za marketing i promociju brenda i da od toga imaju ogromne koristi - imaju. Znam da ne volis slikice, ali jebiga moram da ti crtam jer drukcije ne dopire kroz 3 prsta debelu lobanju, evo koliko je Ferariju trkanje "beznacajno":

 

 

Da li bi bilo koga od ovog sveta zabolelo levo jaje za Ferari da se ovi nisu trkali? Mozda ni jedan od njih nece moci nikada sebi da priusti Ferarijev auto, ali Ferari prihodi sasvim lepo i od prodaje ovih rekvizita. Sa druge strane, upravo ova ovakva emocija koju ovde vidis razlikuje Ferari od Lamborginija i slicnih i zbog nje ve onaj ko moze da priusti Ferari a bitno mu je da se za njim okrecu glave na ulici (a nije da nema takvih) odabrati Ferari umesto Lamborginija ili vec cega.

 

A sto se tice "smesnih tvrdnji" - jedino sto je ovde smesno je tvoja arogancija. Dvaput vid'o F1 bolid na slici i vec je autoritet da s lakocom odbacuje misljenje insajdera koji 20 godina nisu propustili nijedan F1 vikend uzivo. Pun Balkan takvih pametnjakovica, cudo bozje kako do sada jedno 15 svetskih sampiona u automobilizmu nismo izrodili!

 

Nego ces ti meni lepo na ignor, da se druzis malo sa Arnoldom. Aj' uzdravlje!

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

To su sve gluposti, sve oko Ferarijevog napuštanja su mediji prenapuhali uz lažne pretnje Markionea. Ali što je najgore, ovo nisu ni slične pretnje kako je to znao svojevremeno raditi Enco. Negde sam pročitao tekst oko krize u F1 sredinom 80-ih i pretnji Enca da će otići u Indikar ako se stvari ne srede. Bogtemazo, Ferari je čak napravio Indikar bolid. To da su uradili danas, mediji bi eksplodirali od žutila a mi bi se ovde čupali ko gladni vukovi.

 

Dok se ne srede stvari u F1, dok ne dođe dogovor timova oko buduće saradnje s FOM nakon isteka trenutnog konkord sporazuma (koji se gle slučajnosti dešava pre nove revolucije PJ) načitaćemo se svega i svačega. Moramo ostati hladne glave i uzimati sve s dozom obzira. Mislim da je ovo najgora godina što se tiče medija i svega posle 2009. godine. Lebactiyebem, pa zamalo smo imali dva šampionata (jedan od Bernija, drugi od FOTA) i narod je to pušio...

[leone]

I tako, za samo nekoliko dana stigosmo od izjave vajnog strucnjaka  We will make the rules, not you, do Ross Brawn-a:

 

 

He says he is not necessarily committed to any of the proposals he has put forward and is willing to discuss the issues with the four car manufacturers in F1 - Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda.

 

 

 moram priznati brze nego sto sam ocekivao

 

 

 

a tek ovo da je Ross iznenadjen i sokiran:

 

Brawn says he was "a little bit shocked at the response we've had", because the manufacturers had all been involved in a series of meetings that led to the proposal.

"Reflecting on it, maybe we could have presented it differently," Brawn said. "But I didn't anticipate the response to be as strong as it was.

 

pa do otvorenog izvinjenja:

"We've had another meeting since then and I've made that comment. If that is the the thing people are most upset about, then I apologise. But let's not lose sight of what we are trying to do. If they were uncomfortable with the way it was presented, it wasn't intended that way."

 

cijeli, vrlo intresantan text

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/41986411

 

Sad sam ja zabrinut da ce se pravila stvarno jednostarano donosti, sto nije dobro, ali onako kako proizvodjaci diktiraju.  

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

https://joesaward.wo...-in-particular/
 

...
 
But maybe the time has come for F1 to think again about Brazil. It is the sport’s biggest current TV audience (by a long way) but there are no guarantees for the future. The retirement of Felipe Massa at the end of this year will mean that there will be no Brazilian driver on the grid for the first time since the Dutch Grand Prix of 1971 when Emerson Fittipaldi was missing having been injured when a French driver on the Cote d’Azur did an unexpected u-turn and Emerson was smacked-up in the ensuing shunt.

Actually, upon reflection that is not true, because I don’t believe that there were any Brazilians present at the San Marino Grand Prix of 1982, when only half the field turned up because of a boycott, which was part of the infamous FISA-FOCA War, a battle over commercial control of the sport between the federation and the F1 teams. Later, of course, FOCA’s leader Bernie Ecclestone separated the teams from the rights they had won and made them all his own…

The world has moved on and those who think we are going back 35 years to the same kind of fight are dreaming. The sport is now so big that no-one can consider breaking it up. It would be suicidal and would cost a fortune and the offers that will be on the table from Liberty will be sensible, if not generous. They are in the game to make money, but their idea is to do it in a logical way, working with the team and the other stakeholders. The days of divide-and-conquer are over and, as a listed company, their ability to have special deals with the likes of Ferrari is pretty minimal. If they do that, what is to stop a Williams shareholder suing Liberty because his team does not have a fair share of the revenues?

Ferrari has taken a fair beating for suggesting that it might quit the sport if it doesn’t get what it wants. The response inside the sport has been fairly clear. Off you go folks… The manufacturers want to preserve their advantages, but they are not going to throw themselves on the Ferrari bonfire unless it really makes sense. And it doesn’t. On top of all this I seriously doubt Sergio Marchionne is going to pull Ferrari out of F1. He is up to his neck in things that are much more important. He’s trying to keep Fiat Chrysler Automobiles on the right path. Thus far he has managed to hit all his targets and has collected vast (some might say obscene) bonuses as a result. Recent revelations indicate that by the time he leaves FCA in 2019 Marchionne will own shares in the company worth $325 million. He wants to keep the share price high as a result of this and is looking for a partner with which to merge the business, but there is a nasty little scandal brewing over labour deals struck by Chrysler with the powerful United Automobile Workers. These, it seems, were achieved by bribing the union representatives and the FBI wants to know whether Marchionne knew about it. It certainly helped the company enormously. Faced with such things, the F1 problems of Ferrari are really not that important…

One should also consider one other thing that may have an impact. In Italy there are two sports that the nation follows: football and Formula 1. As we were flying home from Brazil on Monday, Italy failed to qualify for the 2018 World Cup, being knocked out by Sweden. It was the first time in 60 years that the nation did not make it to the competition, which it has won four times and been runner-up twice. For many Italians it was a complete disaster. The manager was sacked (of course) and the media spoke of it being the darkest moment in the country’s sporting history. Now, imagine how well Marchionne would fare if he pulled Ferrari out of F1…

...

 

Sta znaju glupi novinari, oni su samo na licu mesta i imaju pristup ljudima i informacijama, to se iz fotelje vidi mnogo bolje...

[leone]

Ja ovakvu tvrdoglavost u zivotu nijesm ni vidio ni cuo.

 

Jednostavnu cinjenicu da se nova pravila  nece donositi jednostrano uporno brani kao da mu zivot od toga zavisi. Sto je najinitresantnije to nije njegova tvrdnja nego izvjesnog novinara, ali mu to ne smeta da nastavlja razbijanjem glave o zid. 

Eto, ako sam ja gresan onda je i Ross Brawn, mozda je i on sjedio u fotelji , mada za fakat da je za ugovor potrebna obostrana saglasnost i nije potrebna posebna pamet i biti Ross.

 

A, voli i da nagadja, zna na koliko sam ja F1 trka bio !!!

 

Naravno, da bi sve to uklopio u neku svoju predstavu, pripisuje mi balkanski mentalitet. Divnog li primjera projekcije.

 

 

 

PS. Na jednom nivou pokazuje napredak, prestao je sa "lijepljenejm" slicica.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

https://joesaward.wo...-payments-work/

 

 

When you add it all up, it is very clear that Ferrari gets a fantastic deal from the sport. And if you add in sponsorship, merchandising. licensing and so on, it is clear that the Italian team is not spending a great deal on F1 – if anything. Thus the suggestion that pulling out of F1 will provide savings for the organisation are wrong, and it will need a pile of money to advertise its products, as the sport is doing that at the moment – and Ferrari has no other marketing, beyond a couple of theme parks and a lot of people walking around wearing Ferrari merchandising…

[/13/Ален Шмит/]

Santander's sponsorship of Ferrari F1 team to end this year, say reports


The Spanish bank Santander will not renew its Formula One sponsorship of Ferrari at the end of this year, according to reports, after spending seven years and €280m (£250m) backing the sport’s most illustrious team.

The bank became Ferrari’s primary sponsor in 2010 when the Spanish driver Fernando Alonso joined the team and Santander was still run by Emilio Botín, a Formula One enthusiast.

Alonso, a two-times world champion with Renault, never found winning form with Ferrari and left at the end of the 2014 season. By then, the Italians had developed a more competitive car but have not won a championship since 2007.

According to a report on the news site El Confidencial, Santander, now run by Botín’s daughter Ana, has turned down Ferrari’s request to renew the deal, valued at €40m, although it may choose to continue as a secondary sponsor.

Juan Manuel Cendoya, head of marketing and communication at Santander, has said on various occasions that the investment in Ferrari has been money well spent, claiming the return was higher than the marketing spend. Formula One has a global audience of about 400 million.

Santander has an annual marketing budget of €450m, much of it going to the Spanish football league and Latin American football’s Copa Libertadores.


https://www.theguard...ace-formula-one

[4_Webber]

Ode Santander i zvanicno.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Jean Todt says the FIA cannot be swayed by Ferrari's threats about quitting formula one.

Amid Liberty Media's plans for new engine rules and a budget cap for the future, the Italian team is warning that it may not sign up for 2021 and beyond.

"That's their choice," said FIA president Todt, who led Ferrari through the ultra-successful Michael Schumacher era.

"We do not want any manufacturers to leave the sport.

"Ferrari is an icon and it is unique, and it would be very painful if they were not in formula one anymore. But that's not my responsibility," the Frenchman is quoted by Speed Week.

Todt said the decision to sell F1's commercial rights to Liberty a year ago was "right".

"Chase Carey is a great CEO and I recognise a structured organisation with real professionals like Ross Brawn and Sean Bratches. The sport is in good hands," he added.