115 replies to this topic

[Downforce]

Na stranu sto ovo sto Dzoni zagovara ne bi licilo ni na sta sa trenutnom tehnologijom. Svi bi svaku trku startovali sa +brojem krugova zbog kazni

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Na stranu sto ovo sto Dzoni zagovara ne bi licilo ni na sta sa trenutnom tehnologijom. Svi bi svaku trku startovali sa +brojem krugova zbog kazni

 

Upravo tako.

[Dzoni_m]

Da. Prvih par trka verovatno. Isto kao sto niko 2014 ne zavrsi prvu trku, kako smo sudili po rezultatima prvih testiranja u predsezoni. 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Zadnji put kad si imao tako drasticnu secu elektronike i vozackih pomagala kakvu predlazes dvojica su poginula, jedan zavrsio sezonu u komi i jos jedan preskocio trku zbog povrede.

 

Moze, ali uz drasticno rezanje performansi.

[romantik]

Niko da prokomentarise ona silna okretanja u prvoj krivini i koliko je to jeftino ovih dana, izgubis 3 sekunde i teras dalje, a da su ovo ona lepa vremena (prave staze, bez asfaltnih zona za izletanje) poredak na cilju danas bii bio otprilike nesto ovako: 1. Ros 2. Ric 3. Hulk 4. Baton 5. Nasr 6. Gutierez (mislim da su to jedini vozaci nisu izletali danas). Nije problem u tehnologiji, radio komunikaciji, sudijama, problem je sto su greske postale jeftine i samim tim "cojones" i majstorije postaju manje bitni a poredak predvidiv. Da su staze prave kao nekad i da smo dobili poredak koji sam gore naveo danas bi svi pricali samo o ludilu koje smo gledali i majstoriji ovih momaka koji su se sa, mozda sa izuzetkom prve dvojice, naslli skroz neocekivano tako visoko i odmah bi bili heroji. Tako su nastajale legende, a ovo danas je sve sterilisano

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Red Bull boss Christian Horner has warned that a small penalty for Mercedes' alleged breach of Formula 1's team radio rules could open the floodgates for teams to choose to tactically break the rules in the future.

Nico Rosberg's runner-up place in the British Grand Prix was under investigation from the race stewards after it was decided that instructions he got from the pitwall to solve a gearbox problem in the closing stages were illegal.

Speaking before stewards gave Rosberg a 10s penalty, Horner said that if the FIA did not come down hard on the matter then in the future teams will elect to deliberately take penalties if they know a potential performance advantage is worth more.

"What will be interesting to see is the precedent that the stewards now come up with, because if if it just a five-second penalty or a reprimand, then it is all fair game for the rest of the year," said Horner.

"There will be loads of messages that will take into account whether it is worth five seconds or not, or a reprimand to give to the car.

"What will be interesting to see is the precedent that is set by Charlie in the stewards because they [the FIA] made it very, very clear – explicitly clear going into this weekend – what their expectations were."

As Motorsport.com revealed earlier this weekend, the FIA had told the teams that from now on any breaches of the radio rules would be sent to the stewards as part of a clampdown on the situation.

Horner said that irrespective of the rights and wrongs of radio limitations for teams, he felt Mercedes was in breach with its instructions.

"I think the [radio] rule is rubbish," he said. "It doesn't make a great deal of sense but the rules are the rules, and on two counts it sounds like instructions were given that breached that protocol.

"One was the switch change that was made and on the second, was the instruction on how to drive the car with the seventh gear issue that they had."

When it was suggested that Mercedes felt that Rosberg's problems were critical – so therefore allowed – Horner responded: "Maybe so – but they still told him how to drive the car with a selection of gears or so on. It is in the hands of the stewards. It is not for me to judge on.

"All I see is that the rules are the rules, whether they are good rules or not: there is loads of information that we would like to give the drivers but we can't. It is now down to the stewards."

Horner also brushed off any suggestion Red Bull had been in breach of the rules by telling Verstappen that Rosberg was under investigation.

"That is strategy," he said. "The car ahead has got an issue effectively, that is not instructing him how to drive the car or change any switches, or miss any gears out."

 

Why Rosberg's radio communications were deemed illegal when his gearbox failed, and why Mercedes will appeal the penalty.

Towards the end of the 2016 British Grand Prix Nico Rosberg’s Mercedes W07 suffered a failure in his transmission. The exact nature of this failure is not yet clear but initially saw the car stick in 7th gear (like all 2016 F1 cars the W07 has an 8 speed ‘box), then Rosberg was able to get out of 7th and radioed in to his team to report the issue. After some feedback from the pitwall, Rosberg was able to continue in the race and crossed the line in second position. But even before the race had ended the radio communications were under investigation by the race stewards. Ultimately this cost the Finnish/German/Monegasque a ten second penalty and with it his second position finish in the race.

At the start of the 2016 season the FIA clamped down on pit to car radio as it was felt that the drivers were getting far too much assistance from the engineers on the pit wall. “What we’re trying to do is to make sure the driver is driving the car on his own, that he’s not being told how to drive the car. Simple as that, really” the FIA’s Charlie Whiting told the press at the start of the season. “We heard many, many complaints from viewers who were a bit fed up of hearing the continual engineering assistance the driver was getting. That’s fundamentally what we want to cut out. But the driver is allowed to say anything he wants – there’s no restrictions in what he says; it’s what the team can say to him. You’ll still get what I would call the juicy content – if someone has done something silly on track, the driver can call him an idiot and all that sort of stuff. Those are the things that generally I think people like to hear.”

At least two technical directives detailing what is an is not allowed to be said during a race have been issued and they are quite specific in what is allowed. What was said by Rosberg’s engineer at Silverstone was deemed to have been outside what was allowable.

When Mercedes detected that the transmission had failure they contacted the FIA to ask if they were allowed to inform Rosberg of what steps to take, permission was given and and the following exchange was had:

Rosberg: “Gearbox problem.”
Engineer: “Driver default 1 0-1, chassis default 0-1, chassis default 0-1.”
(the mention of ‘driver default’ is thought to be an error as the engineer stumbled on his words).

This change in software setting on the car is specifically allowed by the technical directive on the radio transmissions which state the following; “Instructions to select driver defaults for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and handled by the on-board software. In accordance with Article 8.2.4, any new setting chosen in this way must not enhance the performance of the car beyond that prior to the loss of function.” In this case it would be a failure of an actuator or controller which meant that Rosberg could not select 7th gear.

Following that exchange there was a follow up conversation and this is where the race stewards felt that the rules were breached.

Engineer: “Avoid seventh gear, Nico, avoid seventh gear.”

Telling the driver to avoid 7th gear could be argued to be ‘driver coaching’ which is outlawed, but alternatively it could also be argued that it complies with the following of the allowed areas stated in the technical directives; “Indication of a critical problem with the car. Any message of this sort may only be used if failure of a component or system is imminent and potentially terminal.” Mercedes and Rosberg later claimed that the transmission issue was potentially terminal. Telling the driver to avoid the problem however could also be argued to be overstepping the mark.

Rosberg: “What does that mean, I have to shift through it.”
Engineer: “Affirm Nico, you need to shift through it. Affirm, you need to shift through it.”

Rosberg was clearly not entirely certain on how to deal with the issue and asked the pitwall for clarification, and the engineer responded seemingly confirming Rosberg”s suggested course of action and this seems to be outside of the rules as stated in the TD. However it could also be argued that the engineer was in compliance with another line in the directives which states; “Acknowledgement that a driver’s message has been heard, this may include repeating the message back to the driver for the sole purpose of confirmation” it perhaps could be argued that this was all the Mercedes engineer was doing when responding to Rosberg about ‘shifting through 7th’, though to most it did rather seem like a question and answer.

Following this there is some suggestion that more communication continued including questions and directions about how and when to downshift and also how to deal with the car if it got stuck in gear. These comments if indeed they were made were not broadcast in the press room or on UK television.

There has been growing dissatisfaction with radio communication ban from some corners of the paddock, especially following the Austrian Grand Prix when a number of drivers were not able to be told about brake problems, and the situation was already coming to a head and the Rosberg situation has forced it even more into the spotlight.

Many had expected the stewards to fully explain and clarify the position on team radio but the decision text was surprisingly brief and did not fully explain which comments or why specifically those comments were not in compliance with the Sporting Regulations.

Having considered the matter extensively, the Stewards determined that th team gave some instruction to the driver that were specifically permitted under Technical Directive 014-16. However, the Stewards determined that the team then went further and gave instructions to the driver that were not permitted under the Technical Directive and were in Breach of Art. 27.1 of th Sporting Regulations, that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided.

The Stewards then hit Rosberg with the aforementioned 10 second penalty. In terms of penalties this is the first time one has been issued for breaching the ban on pit to car communication and seems, according to comments made by Whiting at the start of the season to be of the fairly applied to a severe level breach of the regulations. “I think it would depend on the level of the breach. If it was a simple one, I think we would let them get away with a warning, at least. If it were slightly more serious the stewards might consider a reprimand, but if they were to do something which really helped the driver do something he should be doing himself then I suspect a time penalty might be more appropriate.”

Mercedes was hit with a 10 second penalty, losing it one position on the podium, but ensuring that its car finished the race, something which has seen some criticise the penalty as being too soft. Regardless Mercedes has decided to announce its intention to appeal the penalty, perhaps in an effort to force more clarification on what is and is not allowed in terms of pit to car communication.


The full list of what is and is not allowed:

The following is a list of the permitted messages. Any other message, including any of those below which we suspect has been used as a coded message for a different purpose (including a prompt to a driver). is likely to be considered a breach of Article 27.1 of the Sporting Regulations and will be reported to the stewards accordingly.

1. Acknowledgement that a driver’s message has been heard, this may include repeating the message back to the driver for the sole purpose of confirmation.
2. Indication of a critical problem with the car. Any message of this sort may only be used if failure of a component or system is imminent and potentially terminal.
3. Information concerning damage to the car.
4. Instructions to select driver defaults for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and handled by the on-board software. In accordance with Article 8.2.4, any new setting chosen in this way must not enhance the performance of the car beyond that prior to the loss of function.
5. Instruction to enter the pit lane in order to fix or retire the car.
6. Indication of a problem with a competitor’s car.
7. Marshalling information (yellow flag, red flag, blue flag, Safety Car, Virtual Safety Car, race start aborted or other similar instructions or information from race control). This would include a reminder to switch off the SC ‘delta time’ function after crossing the first safety car line twice from the time the SC was deployed.
8. Passing on messages from race control (this would include a countdown to the start of the formation lap and telling a driver that the last car has taken up position on the grid at the end of the formation lap).
9. Wet track, oil or debris in certain corners.
10. Weather information.
11. Information concerning the driver’s own lap time or sector times.
12. Lap time of a competitor.
13. Helping with warning of traffic and gaps to other competitors during a practice session or race.
14. Instructions to swap position with other drivers.
15. Number of laps or time remaining during a practice session or race.
16. Position during a practice session or race.
17. ‘Push hard’, ‘push now’, ‘you will be racing xx’, ‘take it easy’ or similar (you are reminded about suspected use of coded messages when giving these messages or any words of encouragement).
18. When to enter the pits (or go to the grid during reconnaissance laps), any message of this sort may only be used if the driver is to enter the pits on that lap. Having been told when to enter the pits drivers may also be told to stay out if there has been a change of circumstances.
19. Reminders to use the pit speed limiter, change tyre settings to match the tyres fitted to the car orto check for white lines, bollards, weighbridge lights when entering or leaving the pits.
20. Driving breaches by team driver or competitor, e.g. missing chicanes, running off track, time penalty will be applied etc.
21. Notification that DRS is enabled or disabled.
22. Dealing with a DRS system failure.
23. Oil transfer.
24. Test sequence information during practice sessions (P1 and P2 only), e.g. aero-mapping.

 

Mercedes has lodged its intention to appeal against the penalty handed to Nico Rosberg by the British Grand Prix stewards regarding its breach of Formula 1's radio communications restrictions.

The champion team now has 96 hours to determine whether it will follow through with an official appeal via its ASN, the Deutschen Motorsport Bund (DMSB).

Rosberg had 10 seconds added to his elapsed race time after the stewards found the German driver and his team guilty of breaking article 27.1 of the sporting regulations, namely the driver shall drive the car alone and unaided.

At the time, Rosberg's car had developed a gearbox problem and he was being advised on how to circumnavigate it - which Mercedes felt was legal as the rules allow such communication if a car has a potentially terminal problem.

It is the first case of its type since the new regulations clamping down on radio messages between teams and drivers were introduced at the start of the season.

Mercedes clearly feels there is a grey area in the wording of the technical directive that accompanies the rule, and is prepared to test the water with its appeal.

Point two of the directive permits radio messages that are an "indication of a critical problem with the car" and adds "any message of this sort may only be used if failure of a component or system is imminent and potentially terminal".

Rosberg had finished second at Silverstone behind team-mate Lewis Hamilton, and just 1.339s ahead of Red Bull's Max Verstappen.

With the additional 10s time penalty, Rosberg is now classified third, and with it his championship lead over Hamilton has been cut to one point.

[Dzoni_m]

Ma da. Najbolje da ce da se zale. U pravu je Horner. Sada ce svi krenuti da savetuju. Kazna je smesna, isplati se rizik. 

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Oce kaki - nece kaki:
 

Mercedes has opted not to pursue its appeal against the British Grand Prix stewards' decision to penalise Nico Rosberg for its breach of Formula 1's radio communications restrictions.

Under the regulations, Mercedes lodged its intention to appeal within one hour of the stewards giving Rosberg a 10-second post-race penalty that dropped him from second behind teammate Lewis Hamilton to third behind Red Bull's Max Verstappen.

Following a day of deliberation, Mercedes has now decided to accept the stewards' decision and penalty.

But it has made clear in a statement that it deems the current radio rules to be draconian, and is planning on discussions with all in F1 in a bid to seek changes.

The statement read: "The Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula 1 team today decided to withdraw its notice of intention to appeal against the decision of the stewards of the British Grand Prix. We were able to prove to the stewards that a car-stopping gearbox failure was imminent and, as such, were permitted within the rules to advise Nico of the required engine mode.

"However, the advice to avoid seventh gear was considered to breach TD/06-16, and therefore article 27.1 of the sporting regulations. The team accepts the stewards' interpretation of the regulation, their decision and the associated penalty.

"During the coming weeks, we will continue discussions with the relevant F1 stakeholders on the subject of the perceived over-regulation of the sport."

The article in question states the driver shall drive the car "alone and unaided."

Mercedes highlighted point number two of the technical directive as its reason for the message exchange with Rosberg late in the race.

That permits radio messages that are an "indication of a critical problem with the car" and that "any message of this sort may only be used if failure of a component or system is imminent and potentially terminal."

With no appeal pending, the race classification stands, meaning Rosberg's lead over Hamilton in the drivers' standings is just one point after 10 races.

 

Mada, sanse da im zalba bude usvojena su nepostojece, tako da je i bolje sto se nisu zalili.

[Downforce]

Tja...terminal svakako nije bila. Nije kao da bi menjac otisao u paramparcad da nije odradjen restart.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Downforce levels, not engine power, are behind Red Bull's straightline speed deficit, according to Mercedes technical chief Paddy Lowe.

In the aftermath of the British Grand Prix, in which Red Bull ran Mercedes close in the wet conditions, Lowe asserted the Austrian team was not being hampered by the performance of its Renault power unit.

"Silverstone is a circuit which is undoubtedly a real test of a car, power and aerodynamics," Lowe told Motorsport.com.

"It’s interesting that Red Bull are constantly peddling a story about the low power they’ve got, but just to set the record straight at this event as they often do, they chose to run a higher level of wing than we did.

"Therefore they look like they have less power and they’re quicker in the corners, because that’s the choice they make.

"The reality is there’s not a huge difference between the engines these days, but there are still differences between the downforce you can run."

 

Dobro, definitivno postoji razlika u snazi izmedju Renoovog i Mercedesovog motora, ali nije Rendza ni blizu toliko los koliko se ovi iz RBR prave da jeste.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Radio-transkript: http://www.f1fanatic...dio-transcript/