442 replies to this topic

[romantik]

Tyre allocations for 2013

Australia – super-soft and medium
Malaysia – medium and hard
China – soft and medium
Bahrain – medium and hard
Spain – medium and hard
Monaco – super-soft and soft
Canada – super-soft and medium

 

 Zar u Australji nije bio Soft i Medium?

[4_Webber]

Supersoft je bio, crvena guma.

[romantik]

Potrazio sam pregled na youtube, u pravu ste, moja greska.

[Wingman]

[DASUBO]

Lete "pljuce" između RB i Pirelija:

 

 

Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions to Formula 1 if that is what teams and fans want.

In the wake of a fresh debate about the impact the tyres are having on the sport - and Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz claiming F1 "has nothing to do with racing anymore" – Pirelli has reiterated it is only doing what it has been asked to.

 

When Pirelli returned to F1 for the 2011 season, it was asked to spice up the show and deliver multiple stop races with high degrading rubber, just like the famous 2010 Canadian Grand Prix.

 

Paul Hembery, its motorsport boss, is aware his company is facing criticism for what is happening on track right now, but he has made it clear that those calling for a radical overhaul need to be sure about exactly what they are hoping for.

 

"What do you want?" he said. "We were asked to provide two to three stops and replicate Canada [2010].

"I know some of you would like us to do a one stop race where tyres are not a factor, and you can go back to processional racing where the qualifying position is the end position, if that is what you want in racing.

"What do you want us to do? You tell us, we will do it."

 

Hembery suggested that his company was baffled about why the tyre situation was being viewed as so extreme this year, when it has been no different ever since it returned to F1 in 2011.

 

"It is rather bizarre because we are only doing what we did in the last two years," he said.

"We don't understand why you [the media] are all so excited.

It is a bit bizarre - unless you all want us to give tyres to Red Bull to help them win the championship, which appears to be the case.

"I think it is pretty clear. There is one team who will benefit from a change and that is them."

 

Red Bull's RB9 is widely believed to be the car that produces the most downforce in Formula 1 this year, but it cannot make use of all that peak performance because it puts the tyres under too much stress.

The nature of the challenge of looking after tyres means cars that are more mechanically sympathetic like the Lotus and Ferrari are better equipped when it comes to being consistent in the races.

 

Kao i uvek istina je negde na sredini. Pneumatici ove sezone jesu previše osetljivi. Prošle sezone, kao što je na ovim stranicama više puta pomenuto, imali smo pneumatike koji su i mogli da se "zgaze" ako se drže u uskom temperaturnom opsegu. Ove sezone to nije slučaj, jer ili se pneumatici raspadaju šta god im timovi radili ili timovi jednostavno ne znaju da ih "otključaju" još uvek. Prošle godine im je trebalo sedam trka, ove godine kako idu stvari biće im potreban možda i čitav šampionat. I to naravno ako usput FIA (čitaj Berni) "ne legnu na rudu" pa dobijemo nekog "hibrida" već u Silverstonu.

 

Mogu da ne volim RB koliko hoću, ali razumem frustraciju. Slupali su užasan novac, imaju genija kao tehničkog direktora i dobili aerodinamički najefikasniji auto koji ne mogu da iskoriste jer previše opterećuju pneumatike. Dakle, imamo pneumatike koji ne mogu da "izdrže" performanse bolida. U slučaju RB i Mercedesa je to extrem, mada sam ubeđen da bi i ferari i Lotus mogli mnogo brže ići u trci nego sada. Znači, pola grida, ako ne i ceo, vozi, karikirano rečeno, "sa pola gasa".

 

Na prvu loptu se javlja razmišljanje da bi timovi trebalo da prilagode svoje bolide ovakvim pneumaticima. Mislim da je to pokvarenluk prve vrste iz dva razloga:

 

1. Sledeće godine imamo dijametralno suprotna pravila i timovi su već opterećeni do krajnjih granica. Ovakva "šarada" sa gumama ih dovodi u praktično bezizlazni položaj, jer su u pitanju evolucije prošlogodišnjih bolida, osim u slučaju Meklarena.

2. Zimska testiranja na pothlađenoj stazi nisu ni izbliza dovoljna da bi se bolidi prilagodili ovim pneumaticima, a sa druge strane se želi izbeći "bildovanje" troškova.

 

Mene je zaista isfrustrirala situacija sa Mercedesom prošlog vikenda, ali još više činjenica da suviše malo trkanja "do daske" u F1. A to je ipak, složiće te se, njena suština.

 

Suma sumarum, Bože me oprosti, moram da se složim sa nekim stvarima koje je Matešić izrekao o ovim pneumaticima.

[4_Webber]

Pireli popustio:

 

Paul Hembery says Pirelli will make "some structural changes" to the tyres in time for the Canadian Grand Prix in order to bring races back to two or three stop strategies.

The decision comes after the hardest two compounds delivered a four-stop race in Barcelona on Sunday. Following a Pirelli meeting on Monday, Hembery said the new tyres would also combine "elements [of] 2012 and 2013 products", and that the "changes made in interests of sport"/

Speaking exclusively to ESPN after the race, Hembery explained just how Pirelli had ended up getting the tyre compounds wrong and said there were a number of options available which it would consider next.

"We're looking at compounds and structure, and the idea is obviously to get back to our two/three stop strategies," Hembery said. "What you've got at the moment is a combination of the cars are really going hard - much harder than we had anticipated, big steps forward in performance - together with a structure that pushes very heavily the compounds. It's a very aggressive structure in the corners and you're pushing the compounds beyond the limits.

"Now the question is are you able to - in a short space of time - change the compounds and provide the desired result? Bearing in mind we have such limited access to cars and testing… Equally, can you modify the structure so that it is less aggressive to the compounds, or go back to say last year's structure with this year's compounds which is somewhere in the middle. It's a difficult thing to get right.

"Four stops wasn't something that we want; we don't like it. It's not dramatic, I mean we've had an interesting race and for many years Barcelona has been the most boring race on the calendar. To have a Ferrari with Alonso winning his home event doesn't make it such a bad weekend overall, but if that were to continue then I think that would be wrong."

[alpiner]

Pirelli je uradio ono što se od njega tražilo.

 

Hembery je lepo pitao: "Šta hoćete?"

 

 

The nature of the challenge of looking after tyres means cars that are more mechanically sympathetic like the Lotus and Ferrari are better equipped when it comes to being consistent in the races.

 

Da li želimo bolide kojima u potpunosti vlada aerodinamika ili će i mehanički grip imati neki uticaj..što je do pre godinu dana nije bio sličaj i stavljan je na marginu

 

Napravi auto koji može da se prilagodi gumi. To je poštenija igra nego - Ide nam loše menjaj gumu ne valja. Još to dolazi iz ekipe koja vodi u šampionatu vozača i konstruktora. 

 

Bizarno je da najelitnijom granom auto sporta potpuno vlada aerodinamika. To bi dalje trebali da budu automobili, a ne letelice obrnutog potiska

 

Meni je dosta bolida "zalepljenih" za stazu. Lako je sa takvom spravom voziti ceo stint brzo. Budi mudar, precizan i kada je potrebno brz u bolidu koji ume ponekada i da ne posluša slepo svaku komandu

 

Ne kažem da je ova guma pravo rešenje, ali neka hvala ne bi one smorove sa jednim odlaskom u pit koji je eventualno mogao da promeni poredak u par slučajeva. Dobro odvozio kvalifikacije i uradio 70% posla u trci.

 

Što reče Radoje, trka se vozi u nedelju, a ne subotu. U čemu je poenta te nedelje ako znam da neko sa npr 8. ne može nikako da dođe do 3. mesta. Kakvo je to trkanje?

Edited by alpiner, 14 May 2013 - 13:25.

[4_Webber]

Eto, ovi tvoji i ovi moji imaju dobar mehanicki, ali to se ne ceni. Bitno je sta odgovara Red Bulu. Jasno je da su oni trenutno glavne baje u F1 u politickom smislu, bez premca.

[alpiner]

Ponekada pored loših luzera imaš i još gore pobednike.

[4_Webber]

Cudi me pasivnost grofa Di Montecemola povodom ovog slucaja. Matesic podviknuo Berniju, ovaj Pireliju i eto, menjaju se gume. Grof nije reagovao ni kada je RB izdejstvovao povratak produvanih difuzora posle samo jedne trke, a upravo je Ferariju najvise odgovarala situacija kada su bili zabranjeni. Potpuno je politicki nadigran od strane Matesica.

 

edit: slova

Edited by 4_Webber, 14 May 2013 - 11:50.

[alpiner]

Red Bull ulaže više i prima manje novca od Ferraria. Idealno za Bernia

 

Razmisli zašto RB koji postoji od 2005. dobija 30mil.€ svake godine zbog doprinosa sportu, a Williams koji postoji od '77.(plus Frenkovo učešće od '69.) ni cvonjka.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Kad bi bar prestali svako malo da cackaju gume i ostavili ih ma kakve da su pa da i svi timovi znaju sa cime moraju da se nose i sta imaju na raspolaganju, nego ovako bezveze...

 

I da su ovakve kao sada ali da se koriste 10-15 godina sva drama bi se stisala, svi bi ih procitali i prilagodili svoje bolide i nikome vise ne bi smetalo. Nego, taman naucili kako da koriste one lanjske kad za ovu godinu dobiju potpuno drugacije, i sad na pola sezone opet menjaj.

 

A Prika je skroz u pravu, nije to zbog toga sto Pireli tako hoce nego oni rade onako kako se od njih trazi. Timovi i Berni dobijaju tacno ono sto su narucili.

 

Bizarno! Ne postoji druga rec da se to opise.

[DASUBO]

Kad bi bar prestali svako malo da cackaju gume i ostavili ih ma kakve da su pa da i svi timovi znaju sa cime moraju da se nose i sta imaju na raspolaganju, nego ovako bezveze...

 

Upravo tako, prošle godine je delovalo da je pronađen dobar odnos između toga da je moguće voziti pod "punim gasom" ali da to neće izazvati xy odlazaka u pit stop.

 

Konstantnim menjanjem specifikacije za pneumatike uvek će neko biti u podrđenom položaju. Prvo su to bili Mercedes i RB, sada liči da će to biti ferari i Lotus, grubo govoreći. Kažem to, jer su ovde u pitanju zaista nijanse zbog kojih auto može da gubi pet desetih po krugu kao od šale u zavisnosti od konfiguracije staze i podloge.

 

Ko je zeznuo? FIA bez ostatka. Slažem se sa drugarima da je Pireli samo uradio ono što je od njih traženo.

Mlađe drugare moram da podsetim da je u istoriji auto sporta, a pogotovu F1 je bilo ohoho primera direktnog "nameštanja" pravila nekom timu/proizvođaču/vozaču.

 

Meni se i dan danas okrene želudac kada se setim kako je preko noći možda i najbolji trkački auto svih vremena, Porsche 917, ispao iz igre.

 

Stvari su proste, gde je mnogo love, tu milosti nema.

[leone]

Nece tu biti nekih znacajnijih izmjene u gumama, combine "elements [of] 2012 and 2013 products", kako to predstavljaju u samom Pireliju,  vec smo imali trke ove godine sa manjim brojem stopova, tako da niti ce Ferrari i Lotos biti "sporiji" niti RB "brz"i samo zbog guma.

 

Cini mi se da je tu najvise u pitanju PR i Pirelija i F1, razana nadmudrivanja, mjerenja cija je "patka" duza i pozicioniranja timova u stilu ko gubi (mada nijesam primijetio da RB gubi  ) ima pravo da se ljuti.

 

 Kanada ce brzo pa cemo vidjeti.

[alpiner]

Analysis: What Pirelli’s mid-season changes will mean

 

The sudden announcement by Pirelli that they are to change the tyre specifications from the seventh round of the world championship onwards will inevitably raise many questions: who will it favour, what are the implications for the racing?

With no testing available – a significant part of the reason why Pirelli has struggled to get the tyres right this year – they will have to use a construction solution that has been proven to work in the past, rather than try something new.

JA on F1 technical adviser Mark Gillan was chief operations engineer at Williams until the end of 2012 and has a deep understanding of how the tyres work and what is involved in this change.

Here, with his input, is our analysis of today’s decision.

When Pirelli says the tyres from Canada will be more like 2012 tyres what does that mean?

The 2012 tyres were more durable than this year’s tyres, which suffer from high degradation. Pirelli has indicated that it will change the construction of the tyres to be more like the 2012 products.

The 2013 tyres have a different construction from the 2012 products, with a steel belt inside the tyre in place of last year’s kevlar belt. It is likely that this decision will be reversed with the revised tyres, as Pirelli moves back to a proven solution.

The weakness of the 2012 tyres was wear; typically the inside shoulder of the tyres would wear out and teams would run the tyre until there was no rubber left on the shoulder and then make a pit stop. However the teams understood how to manage them quite well by the end of the season.

For 2013 Pirelli tried to fix the wear problem by getting the contact patch of the tyre more reasonably positioned, but it seems that in changing the construction to achieve this they have gone too far.

Although the reason given for the change is that four stops is considered too many for a race and they would like to reduce that to two or three stops, there is also the safety aspect in light of the tyre failures in Bahrain and Spain. In changing the construction, they have obviously done something to affect the tyre’s integrity.


Which teams will be most affected by these changes?
Thermal management of the tyre is the key this year and teams like Ferrari, Lotus and Force India have prioritised this in their 2013 designs. All three have good aerodynamics, but they have engineered in a way to keep the tyre in its ideal operating window by a combination of a stable aero map, a mechanical package which is in sympathy with the tyre and a good set-up.

Red Bull has very good aerodynamic package, as it has for many years now, but inferior mechanical package and thermal management of the tyres.

These weaknesses assume less importance with the changes Pirelli is making, they are likely to increase the operating window of the tyres and increase the durability and that reduces the importance of the thermal management.


What challenges does a change of tyres seven races into the season present to the teams?
The knock-on effects of a change of tyre construction are considerable and this is a major headache for teams, especially as they are about to commit more wind tunnel time and resources to their 2014 designs.

It is unlikely that a change of construction can be made without this affecting the shape of the tyre and how the contact patch with the ground forms. When part of the tyre leaves the ground this changes the shape of the airflow to the floor of the car.

The teams have spent many months modelling this in the wind tunnel and in CFD and if the shape changes even by a few millimetres, this will have an effect on the way the front wing interacts with the tyres, and with the flow down the side of the car and underneath the floor. It will impact the aerodynamic balance of the car and teams that have pushed to get on top of that will suffer.

We are getting close to the time when the teams were hoping to move the 2013 model out of the wind tunnel and start devoting more time to the 2014 model. This change of tyres will complicate this for everyone. particularly for teams with limited resources, it will make for a real headache as they try to stay competitive in 2013 and not lose ground in 2014.

 

http://www.jamesalle...nges-will-mean/