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#31 Analiza

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:12

Biblijska konsekventnost.

SELECTED BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS


Nemam vremena da pišem komentare protiv svih ovih izvrtanja i besmislica.

Navedi jednu ali po tebi najčvršću kao dokaz protiv smislenosti Pisma pa ću na njenom primeru pokazati koliko su sve one principijelno besmislene optužbe.

#32 cyberwor/L/d

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:15

Nemam vremena da pišem komentare protiv svih ovih izvrtanja i besmislica.

Navedi jednu ali po tebi najčvršću kao dokaz protiv smislenosti Pisma pa ću na njenom primeru pokazati koliko su sve one principijelno besmislene optužbe.

Hoces reci da to ne pise u Bibliji? Ovaj koji je citao sest puta izgleda nije dobro procitao. Gresan li je.

#33 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:23

Najjache je kad "bog" daje spisak ptica koje se ne smeju jesti, jer nisu chiste, i na kraju kazhe da je jedna od ptica koje se ne smeju jesti - slepi mish.

Hehehe. Izgleda da "bogu" zoologija nije bila jacha strana.

#34 Gogy

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:28

Šta su to nečiste životinje? Prljave? Zašto ih onda samo ne operu? I šta Noje radi sa tim čistim i nešistim životinjama, sigurno ih ne koristi za sex? I zašto baš u paru, ako su nečiste? Ako ih jede, šta će mu par, mislim potpuno je sve jedno da li jedeš mužjake ili ženke.


Nije mišljeno kao uprljane od blata, zemlje.. i slično. :ph34r:
'Nečiste' su životinje, koje se hrane lešom drugih bića.


Inače, mislim, da se u zadnje vreme fenomenom Biblija više bave ateiste i skeptici negoli sami vernici. Ako pričamo o Bibliji, jer je očito, da se druge religijske knjige i svete spise niti ne poznaje dovoljno, da bi se ubedljivo 'kritikovalo' šta to piše 'smešno' u njima. Sam smatram, da je celu Bibliju potrebno sagledati kao jedan istorijski sažetak događaja u kojima su 'novinari' upotrebili tada poznata naučna i životna iskustva, da opišu nešto što je nadmašivalo njihove umove. Slično kao što mi danas pišemo o letečim tanjurima i cigarama a možda se za par stotina godina utvrdi, da su to stručno nazvali paramultidisperzivni navigator pa će se smejati našim opisima raznoraznih cigara... :) Kad svi znamo, da cigara leti samo kao opušak, bačen prema obližnjoj kanti, kad se ispuši.

Inače, ima i u drugim svetim spisima štošta da se nađe nepotvrđenog ali pričamo uglavnom o Svetom pismu. A šta naš vrli Šmeling kaže na dosta toga, što se u Bibliji utvrdilo za istinito? Razna imena gradova i pokrajina, za koje su čak našli i zidine i dokaze o uništenjima dotičnih? Kao za primer, recimo... :D

#35 cyberwor/L/d

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:29

Let's look at something more substantial than clothes or goat meat--the issue of slavery. Look at Exodus 21:2-7.

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. "If he comes alone, he shall go out alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall go out with him. "If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone. "But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,' then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently. If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.
Do you have an opinion on the morality of this passage? Is it right to buy slaves, even if the period is limited to six years? What do you think about the poor women slaves? If the men could go free after six years, why should the women be slaves for life? And look at the condition that was placed on these male slaves obtaining their freedom. If a slave had married while in slavery, his wife and children could not leave with him. Only the man could leave. Should a decent man accept this offer and abandon his family as slaves? What kind of family values is that?

Do you have an ounce of respect for the father who takes his little girl--the one that cuddles in his lap at night and calls him "Daddy"--and sells her into lifelong slavery? Why does the Bible allow it? Is it really moral to sell one's own daughter, knowing that she and her children will become slaves for life? I can't even imagine a person thinking this is acceptable. Help me out here. What am I missing? Isn't it immoral to treat your daughter like this?

link

#36 cyberwor/L/d

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:31

Inače, mislim, da se u zadnje vreme fenomenom Biblija više bave ateiste i skeptici negoli sami vernici.

ako cemo iskreno, mnogi vernici nikada i nisu procitali Bibliju nego su dobijali onakona parce sve sa tumacenjem onoga koji im je servirao religijsku porciju pa unapred sazvakao umesto njih.

#37 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:36

Josh jacha je preporuka shta raditi s onima koji rade Subotom. U Bibliji doslovno pishe - ubiti ih.
Toliko o "svetoj knjizi".

#38 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:40

Koja je kazna, po Bibliji i vernicima, za silovatelja i zhrtvu silovanja?
Kamenovanje do smrti, verovali ili ne, i za nju i za njega. Za njega zbog silovanja, a za nju zato shto nije dovoljno glasno vrishtala.

:ph34r:

#39 Gogy

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:41

ako cemo iskreno, mnogi vernici nikada i nisu procitali Bibliju nego su dobijali onakona parce sve sa tumacenjem onoga koji im je servirao religijsku porciju pa unapred sazvakao umesto njih.


Istina. Ali, ako ćemo iskreno, ni mnogi ateiste nisu pročitali Bibliju, pa onako, na parče, prave copy/paste po raznim forumima i zadirkivaju već xy puta viđenima pitanjima, koje su drugi postavili... :ph34r:

#40 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:45

Shta Biblija kazhe o verskoj toleranciji? Hm...
Bog ima prilichno jednostavan recept za pojavu kao shto su gradovi u kojima se propoveda o nekom drugom bogu: pronaci ih, napasti taj grad, potpuno ga unishtiti, potpuno unishtiti sve njegove zhitelje, kao i svu stoku. Onda se sve to mora dovuci na trg i zapaliti.

:ph34r:



Biblija je knjiga kojoj nema mesta u savremenom svetu, jer je prepuna ovakvih gluposti. Ljudi koji doslovno veruju u Bibliju (pravi vernici) su opasnost po drushtvo i svoje blizhnje, jer prihvataju ovakve ekstremistichke stavove.

#41 Analiza

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:47

Hoces reci da to ne pise u Bibliji? Ovaj koji je citao sest puta izgleda nije dobro procitao. Gresan li je.


Tu nema nijedne protivrecnosti, vec neposten, povrsan i zlonameran um pokusava da ih tako predstavi.

Na primer, Bog kaze: "Pogledajte u mene, i spašćete se svi krajevi zemaljski; jer sam ja Bog, i nema drugoga." (Isaija 45,22) a takodje kaze Pismo da Boga niko nikada nije video i ostao živ. Da li je Pismo protivrečno kada nas Bog poziva da u Njega gledamo a niko ga ne može videti i ostati živ? Samo ako namerno ne želimo da razumemo smisao Pisma ovo nam se može činiti protivrečnim. Bog se može videti u smislu Njegovog duha i karaktera, ali ne u smislu nekoga ko prebiva u svojoj slavi.

Peta zapovest kaže da treba da poštujemo roditelje, a Isus svojim rečima objašnjava razliku između poštovanja i obožavanja. Roditelj treba da se poštuje, ali ne sme da bude autoritet koji će bezpogovorno da se sluša, posebno ne onda kada ustaje protiv deteta zato što ono drži Božje zapovesti. Nepošten čovek ne želi ovo da razume, a površan nije ni u stanju da shvati, jer mu nečije pobude poslušnosti i sami uslovi poslušnost nisu važni. Neki ljudi nisu nepošteni i pokvareni zato što ne razumeju Pismo, već su zaista površni, pa na primer, kada Bog kaže "oko za oko" a istovremeno kaže "ljubi neprijatelje", to njima deluje protivrečno. Oni ne shvataju da čovek treba da bude pravdoljubiv ali ne sme u srcu da mrzi krivca, čak i ako ga kažnjava.

Nekome iskreno deluje protivrečno kada u svojoj besedi na Gori Blagoslova Isus prvo kaže: "Tako da se svetli vaše videlo pred ljudima, da vide vaša dobra dela, i slave Oca vašega koji je na nebesima." (Matej 5,16), a zatim: "Pazite da pravdu svoju ne činite pred ljudima da vas oni vide; inače plate nemate od Oca svojega koji je na nebesima." (Matej 6,1) Isus nas prvo poziva da činimo dobra dela tako da ih ljudi vide, a zatim da pazimo da ih ljudi ne vide. Nije li to protivrečno? Nije! Da je Isus rekao samo "Da se svetli vaše videlo pred ljudima, da vide vaša dobra dela" mnogi bi se zadovoljili svojom pravednošću, nesvesni da je ona pokrenuta željom za odobravanjem i naklonošću okoline, umesto pravom božanskom ljubavlju. Da je Isus rekao samo "Pazite da pravdu svoju ne činite pred ljudima da vas oni vide" mnogi bi našli izgovor za svoj besmislen i beskoristan život koji ne predstavlja nikakvo videlo niti blagoslov za ovaj svet.

Dok jedan biblijski stih kaže da se "delima zakona ni jedno telo neće opravdati pred Njim." (Rimljanima 3,20) dotle drugi stih kaže: "Vidite li dakle da se delima pravda čovek, a ne samom verom?" (Jakov 2,24) Kada bi se u Bibliji nalazila samo tvrdnja da se delima zakona niko ne može opravdati (izmiriti sa Bogom i tako spasti), mnogi bi zbog svoje površnosti zaključili da posvećenje ne rezultuje poslušnošću Božjem moralnom zakonu. "Jer niste pod zakonom nego pod blagodaću. Šta dakle? Hoćemo li grešiti kad nismo pod zakonom nego pod blagodaću? Bože sačuvaj!" (Rim. 6,14-15) Da je Božja reč rekla samo "vidite li dakle da se delima pravda čovek, a ne samo verom" mnogi bi zaključili da čovek može da se izmiri sa Bogom činjenjem dobrih dela. Dobra dela ne smemo da činimo da bismo se spasli, već zato što smo spaseni; dakle - iz ljubavi, a ne iz nekih drugih motiva. Religiozna revnost mora da bude posledica, a ne uzrok našeg spasenja u Bogu.

Naveo sam par primera stihova koje ljudi zaista ne moraju odmah da shvate zato što površni. U tom slučaju treba da budu ponizni, a ne da unapred osuđuju nešto što ne razumeju samo zato što oni sami imaju duhovni problem, nedostatak razuma i ljubavi da shvate Pismo.

Međutim, primeri koje si ti naveo kao da su protivrečni su tako podmetnuti kao posledica čistog nepoštenja i pokvarenosti, jer svako ko je pošten može iz njihovog koneksta da shvati zašto su oni sasvim u skladu jedni sa drugim. Zato sam i tražio da mi navedeš jedan primer koji smatraš neospornim, jer ovako možeš da praviš nepoštene konstrukcije koliko hoćeš.

Edited by Analiza, 04 May 2009 - 13:48.


#42 Analiza

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:52

Shta Biblija kazhe o verskoj toleranciji? Hm...


Njena nauka je izvor tolerancije savremenog sveta, a osim Biblije ti nemaš drugi lek protiv ekstremističkih stavova ni protiv zla medju ljudima.

Bez Biblije ti možeš samo da morališeš, medjutim, nijedna ateistička filozofija nije u stanju da preporodi karakter naroda kao što je to uradilo Jevanđelje u veku razuma sa narodima Zapadne Evrope:

http://aeiou.users.s...osvecenosti.doc

Sada imam posla, pa ću se javiti mozda tek noćas ili sutra ujutru.

#43 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 13:54

Da vidimo shta biblija kazhe o onima koji odbacuju presudu sveshtenika bozhjeg...
Shta mislite?
Pa naravno, smrt. Biblija kazhe "mora se ubiti" onaj koji odbacuje presudu sveshtenika.



Idemo dalje.




Ima i deo o veshticama: shta mislite shta treba raditi sa veshticama?
Naravno, ubiti, kazhe biblija. I tako postaje direktno odgovorna za sve nesretnice koje su vekovima proglashavane za veshtice, muchene i spaljivane. U stvari, ne Biblija (jer ima i gorih knjiga), nego oni koji su je proglasili za "knjigu istine".






Dalje? Mislite da su organizacije kao shto su "Obraz" i "stormfront" netolerantne prema homoseksualcima? Razmislite ponovo. Shta mislite shta u Bibliji pishe u vezi sa "kaznom" za homoseksualni odnos?
Dakako - smrt. Biblija jasno kazhe da homoseksulace treba ubiti.




Preljuba? Koja je kazna za preljubu? Pogadjate - smrt. I za mushkarca koji je spavao sa nechijom zhenom, i za tu zhenu.



Bludnichenje? Kazna je isto smrt.




Genocid? Biblija ne samo da ga opravdava, nego ga i podstiche:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.


Obratite paznju na deo "i veliko i malo, i mushko i zhesnko".

Kakva boleshtina.





A ako se ozhenite, pa se ispostavi da vam zhena nije nevina? Koja je kazna za nju, po Bibliji? Smrt, sad vec pratite...

Ima li Bibliji mesta u savremenom svetu? Naravno da nema.

#44 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 14:02

Njena nauka je izvor tolerancije savremenog sveta, a osim Biblije ti nemaš drugi lek protiv ekstremističkih stavova ni protiv zla medju ljudima.

Bez Biblije ti možeš samo da morališeš, medjutim, nijedna ateistička filozofija nije u stanju da preporodi karakter naroda kao što je to uradilo Jevanđelje u veku razuma sa narodima Zapadne Evrope:

http://aeiou.users.s...osvecenosti.doc

Sada imam posla, pa ću se javiti mozda tek noćas ili sutra ujutru.



Hahaha...

Biblija izbor verske tolerancije...
Evo shta biblija kazhe o pripadnicima drugih religija. Vrlo je jasno - treba ih ubiti, kazhe Biblija. Veoma tolerantno, nema shta.


1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Dakle, ako se kod tvog brata, sestre, prijatelja, deteta ili zhene pojave znaci obozhavanja nekog drugog boga, treba tog odmah ubiti.
Verska tolerancija!!!
Hahaha.

#45 Schmeling

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 14:12

Da vidimo iz kakvih sve razloga bog ubija:

1. Prorok ide putem, a iz grada izlaze dechica i zajebavaju ga, vichu mu "celavi, celavi". Prorok se okrece i proklinje ih u ime boga. Neposredno zatim iz grmlja izlaze dve medvedice i raskomadaju chetrdeset dvoje (!!!) dece.

:ph34r:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)



Sve ti jebem, 42 dece, zato shto su vikala "celavi". Stvarno je bog, onako, do jaja. Ali jebiga, izgleda da ima pik na nejach. Da vidimo.


Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)



Dakle, decu treba poklati zbog grehova njihovih ocheva kazhe Biblija (bog).
Sve ti jebem.

Evo josh nekoliko izvoda o ubijanju, silovanju i sakacenju beba, dece, zhena i staraca, sve u bozhje ime.


God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)


Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)



God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)



Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)


Da prevedem, ko nije razumeo, shta kazhe ova "sveta knjiga": bez milosti za bespomocne bebe i bez samilosti za decu".

Sunce ti jebem.