3066 replies to this topic

[leira]

jednina: posetilac, gledalac, izvrsilac, ronilac, itd.

mnozina: posetioci, gledaoci, izvrsioci, ronioci, itd.
i nema dileme

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i u padezima se menja
N posetilac, G posetioca, D&L posetiocu, A posetioca, V posetioche, I posetiocem..
N posetioci, G posetilaca, D&I&L posetiocima, V posetioci, A posetioce

[Amelija]

tacno, tacno, i padezi su bitni

[PeraZdera]

eve ga još jedna večna dilema

odeLenje ili odeLJenje ???

[leira]

eve ga još jedna večna dilema

odeLenje ili odeLJenje ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

uvek odeLJenje

[Ivan Car]

Imam jednu englesku gramaticku nedoumicu i da sad ne bih otvarao novu temu, nadam se da moze i na jezickim nedoumicama.

Problem je oko izrazavanja proslosti u obliku: having + past participle & being + past participle. Koliko vidim, u objasnjenju gramatike kaze da izrazavaju svrsenu radnju koja se dogodila pre neke druge radnje i da se na srpski jezik oba oblika prevode sa : kad je... ili posto je...

Moguce da je ovo prosto, ali ja ne kapiram, bar do sada.

Kakva je razlika? Ne bi bilo lose postaviti i neki primer.

Edited by Ivan Car, 19 April 2006 - 11:37.

[Zeka Peka]

Sta je pravilno- posetioc ili posetilac?

Леира и Амелија су већ рекле шта треба, али морам и ја да се јавим и извадим за претходни блам са падежима.

Битно је да "л" постоји само у номинативу једнине и генитивну множине.

Дакле, нпр. "Ја сам посетилац" и "од свих посетилаца". Сви остали облици су са "О".

[Mr.Smith]

Imam jednu englesku gramaticku nedoumicu i da sad ne bih otvarao novu temu, nadam se da moze i na jezickim nedoumicama.

Problem je oko izrazavanja proslosti u obliku: having + past participle & being + past participle. Koliko vidim, u objasnjenju gramatike kaze da izrazavaju svrsenu radnju koja se dogodila pre neke druge radnje i da se na srpski jezik oba oblika prevode sa : kad je... ili posto je...

Moguce da je ovo prosto, ali ja ne kapiram, bar do sada.

Kakva je razlika? Ne bi bilo lose postaviti i neki primer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dok se ne javi neko ko stvarno poznaje engleski, ja kao laik da probam da ti olaksam zivot - to sto trazis se zove 'past gerund' i mislim da je razlika prvenstveno u pasivnom i aktivnom obliku...

Having said that, ...

That being said, ...

...zeznuta stvar taj gerund...

[Ivan Car]

Da, izgleda da je u tome i stos.
Kod prvog oblika radi se o aktivu, a kod drugog o pasivu.

[leira]

rec je o bezlicnim recenicama, vremenskim u ovom slucaju, sa -ing participle oblikom, jedan je perfekatski participle - having said that...,a prevodi se sa Rekavsi - odnosno glagolskim prilogom proslim ili kako se to vec zove na srpskom
drugi je pasivan, tu ste u pravu, ali ni jedan ni drugi nisu gerundi! gerund je glagolska imenica, i moze da ima samo funkcije imenice.
sve ostalo su participi!

[Mr.Smith]

...mozda ti i ovo pomogne, skinute sa jednog sajta...

"Gerunds are nouns formed from verbs. There are two types of gerund: present gerunds, which look like present participles (e.g. "soaring" and "falling") and past gerunds, which are formed by preceding a past participle with the word "having" (e.g. "having forgotten" and "having neglected").

As covered above in Section 1, there are two types of gerund: a present gerund and a past gerund. Below are some examples:

Present Gerunds
Present gerunds look like present participles (the verb form which ends "ing"). Present gerunds often express the idea of "while".
Reading the paper, he reached for the remote control and changed channel.
("Reading" is a present gerund - "While reading the paper, he reached...")
Referring to your recent letter, I no longer own racing pigeons.
("Referring" is a present gerund.)
Weeping, the young girl showed her arm to her mother.
("Weeping" is a present gerund - "While weeping, the young girl...")

Past Gerunds
Past gerunds take the form: "Having" + past participle.
Having informed the baker of his mistake, I was given two more loaves.
("Having informed" is a past gerund.)
Having started this project, Fergal would like to see it through to its end.
("Having started" is a past gerund.)

tvoja druga recenica bi glasila "Being informed of his mistake, the baker gave me two more loaves." - recenica ima specifican ritam i mora pazljivo da se koristi, a jos mora de se vodi racuna i o tome da se vremena pravilno poredjaju

BEWARE DANGLING MODIFIERS!

Gerunds, both present and past, must be logically attached to the subject of the sentence. This is less confusing than it sounds. For example:
Having entered the square, the statue came into view.
(This is incorrect. The writer did not mean that the statue
entered the square.)
Having entered the square, we could clearly see the statue.
(This is correct. "We" entered the square, and "we" could see the
statue. The subject of the sentence ("we") is logically
attached to the gerund ("Having entered").
Referring to your recent letter, the pigeons have all been sold.
(This is incorrect. The pigeons cannot refer to a letter.)
Referring to your recent letter, I can confirm that the pigeons
have all been sold.
(This is correct. "I" am "referring", and "I" "can confirm".)


When the gerund is not logically attached to the subject of the sentence (as in the first and third examples above), it is known as a "dangling modifier"."...(nastavlja se u nedogled...)

...pa srecno...

Edited by Mr.Smith, 19 April 2006 - 21:33.

[leira]

...mozda ti i ovo pomogne, skinute sa jednog sajta...

"Gerunds are nouns formed from verbs.  There are two types of gerund: present gerunds, which look like present participles (e.g. "soaring" and "falling") and past gerunds, which are formed by preceding a past participle with the word "having" (e.g. "having forgotten" and "having neglected").

As covered above in Section 1, there are two types of gerund: a present gerund and a past gerund.  Below are some examples:

Present Gerunds
Present gerunds look like present participles (the verb form which ends "ing").  Present gerunds often express the idea of "while".
Reading the paper, he reached for the remote control and changed channel. 
      ("Reading" is a present gerund - "While reading the paper, he reached...")
Referring to your recent letter, I no longer own racing pigeons. 
      ("Referring" is a present gerund.)
Weeping, the young girl showed her arm to her mother. 
      ("Weeping" is a present gerund - "While weeping, the young girl...")

Past Gerunds
Past gerunds take the form: "Having" + past participle.
Having informed the baker of his mistake, I was given two more loaves. 
      ("Having informed" is a past gerund.)
Having started this project, Fergal would like to see it through to its end. 
      ("Having started" is a past gerund.)

tvoja druga recenica bi glasila "Being informed of his mistake, the baker gave me two more loaves." - recenica ima specifican ritam i mora pazljivo da se koristi, a jos mora de se vodi racuna i o tome da se vremena pravilno poredjaju

  BEWARE DANGLING MODIFIERS!

Gerunds, both present and past, must be logically attached to the subject of the sentence.  This is less confusing than it sounds. For example:
Having entered the square, the statue came into view.
      (This is incorrect.  The writer did not mean that the statue
      entered the square.)
Having entered the square, we could clearly see the statue.
      (This is correct.  "We" entered the square, and "we" could see the
      statue.  The subject of the sentence ("we") is logically
      attached to the gerund ("Having entered").
Referring to your recent letter, the pigeons have all been sold.
      (This is incorrect.  The pigeons cannot refer to a letter.)
Referring to your recent letter, I can confirm that the pigeons
      have all been sold.
      (This is correct.  "I" am "referring", and "I" "can confirm".)
 

When the gerund is not logically attached to the subject of the sentence (as in the first and third examples above), it is known as a "dangling modifier"."...(nastavlja se u nedogled...)

...pa srecno...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sve ovo stoji, samo terminologija ne valja, jer nije u pitanju gerund, nego particip! ako mozes, ostavi link sajta sa kojeg si ovo skinuo.

[Crveniautobus]

Evo, bas htedoh i ja reci da su ono participi.

[Mr.Smith]

sve ovo stoji, samo terminologija ne valja, jer nije u pitanju gerund, nego particip! ako mozes, ostavi link sajta sa kojeg si ovo skinuo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...opet kazem, kao laik nemam dovoljno znanja da bilo cemu protivrecim, tako da prepustam dalju prepisku strucnjacima...

...kada mi nesto nije jasno, a posto moram cesto da pisem na engleskom, potrazim to sto mi treba na jednom od sajtova, jedan od njih je http://www.grammar-monster.com/ sa kojeg je ovo i skinuto...

[leira]

...opet kazem, kao laik nemam dovoljno znanja da bilo cemu protivrecim, tako da prepustam dalju prepisku strucnjacima...

...kada mi nesto nije jasno, a posto moram cesto da pisem na engleskom, potrazim to sto mi treba na jednom od sajtova, jedan od njih je  http://www.grammar-monster.com/  sa kojeg je ovo i skinuto...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, bacicu pogled na sajt...
po meni, nije mnogo bitno ni znati terminologiju ako znas pravilno da gradis i upotrebljavas konstrukciju. terminologija je bitna jezickim teoreticarima.....

[Crveniautobus]

Upravo tako.

...

Problem je, sa druge strane, sto autori preskriptivnih materijala cesto nemaju veze s lingvistikom. Sto jednostavno nisu nazvali gerund i sadasnji particip "ing oblikom"?