Jump to content


Photo

Predsednički izbori u SAD


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
473 replies to this topic

Poll: Ko pobeuje? (162 member(s) have cast votes)

Ko pobeuje?

  1. Dord Bu (98 votes [60.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.49%

  2. Don Keri (45 votes [27.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.78%

  3. Ralf Nader (19 votes [11.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.73%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#466 Doc

Doc
  • Banned
  • 223 posts

Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:42

Mudrac,
Be careful this is a pro Albanian board; people have been banned for posting such heresy

#467 heathen

heathen
  • Members
  • 1,442 posts

Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:56

Minimize the Mandate

by Paul Craig Roberts

What was the presidential election about?

In their victory speeches, Vice President Cheney and President Bush claimed a "mandate," "historic victory," and that "America has spoken."

A mandate for what? A victory for what? How spake America?

Pundits have declared that the election was about "moral values." Americans in the red states voted against homosexual marriage and abortion.

Let's hope that this is correct. Otherwise, America is doomed if Bush's reelection is based on his economic and foreign policy record.

Can you imagine our peril if Bush's mandate is for unprecedented trade and budget deficits and job loss? Or for taking the country to war based on incompetence or deception?

Thankfully, the electorate did not give Bush a mandate for getting thousands of Americans killed and maimed for no other reason than the Bush administration's inability to assess the intent and capability of Iraq. Bush's reelection is not a mandate for establishing a dozen or more permanent US military bases in Iraq and expanding the war to Syria, Lebanon, and Iran.

If Bush limits his second term to homosexual marriage and abortion, we and the world will be a lot safer. Medical doctors will not stop putting the mother's life first, and homosexuals are no more in need of marriage than the large percentage of heterosexuals who have abandoned it. Homosexual marriage has never been much more than a way to assert legitimacy that most rubs opponents' noses in the proverbial.

If Americans allow Cheney, Bush, and their neoconservative masters to claim a mandate for preemptive attack against misperceived enemies and for removing disliked dictators, no draft-aged American and few countries without nuclear weapons are safe. If Republicans claim a mandate for moving American jobs offshore while amnestying millions of illegals, no American's job is secure. If Bush claims a mandate for unprecedented red ink, American children have no future.

By all means, please let's keep Bush's mandates limited to moral values. Let us not even criticize the Christian right-wing for preening their "moral values" feathers while ratifying an illegal invasion that has killed somewhere between 15,000 and 100,000 innocent Iraqis, mostly women and children, and ended or ruined the lives of some 10,000 American sons, fathers, husbands, and brothers.

For our own sakes, we must limit Bush's mandate to a veto of homosexual marriage and to Supreme Court appointments that might, possibly, overturn Roe v. Wade.

Repeat after me: No mandate for preemptive war. No mandate for American Empire. No mandate for isolating America from its allies. No mandate for Israeli territorial expansion in the Middle East. No mandate for endless red ink. No mandate for selling out American jobs and occupations to foreigners. No mandate for a domestic police state.

I am beginning to like the outcome of this election.

#468 voyageur

voyageur
  • Members
  • 613 posts

Posted 07 November 2004 - 05:39

for taulant :

This new Dutch fim documents the role of the KLA, an Albanian terrorist organization, in making large contributions to the Kerry campaign and in return receiving the praises of the likes of Richard Holbrooke and Wesley Clark. The film further notes that the KLA has connections to Al Quada and is willing to use arms against US troops in Kosovo in their goal of an independent "Kosova".

...
nezavisno Kosovo ? neka bude, i onako ce za nekih maksimalno 30 godina EU biti ono sto treba da bude i granice nece biti bitne, a za jedno 200 godina citava ta prica oko nezavisnosti bice smesna jer cemo svi biti zavisni od nekoh drugih, sada toliko nebitnih stvari..
globalizacija brate...pa ti sad vidi...nema da bude kako zelis da bude, nego ce biti kako mora biti...zelje su jedno, a stvarnost nesto drugo, dobije li Kosovo nezavisnost i spoji li se sa Albanijom kad-tad progutace sve to GLOBALIZACIJA, ali ti to mozda jos uvek ne vidis niti mozes da vidis i razumes, ako gresim, izvinjavam se unapred.
NWO se zahuktava, i povratka nema.

#469 Indy

Indy
  • Members
  • 21,392 posts

Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:18

QUOTE(Doc @ 7 Nov 2004, 13:42)
Mudrac,
Be careful this is a pro Albanian board; people have been banned for posting such heresy

No, this is a pro-democracy board. People have been banned for promoting fascism here, but you're still around. That's a mistake. dry.gif

#470 Chihiro

Chihiro
  • Members
  • 393 posts

Posted 07 November 2004 - 20:03

QUOTE(Doc @ 6 Nov 2004, 23:42)
Mudrac,
Be careful this is a pro Albanian board; people have been banned for posting such heresy

Ne bas, ovo je vecinom pro-democratic party (US, naravno) forum, koji podrzava sve ono sto podrzavaju americki demokrati, indiscriminately.

Za one koji zele da se amerikanizuju, savetujem da bar jednom dnevno desetak minuta meditiraju na temu sta je to od cega cu ja imati najvise koristi u zivotu, bez obzira na posledice po druge.

#471 Indy

Indy
  • Members
  • 21,392 posts

Posted 07 November 2004 - 22:19

QUOTE(Chihiro @ 8 Nov 2004, 05:03)
Za one koji zele da se amerikanizuju, savetujem da bar jednom dnevno desetak minuta meditiraju na temu [i]sta je to od cega cu ja imati najvise koristi u zivotu, bez obzira na posledice po druge.

Ti sad ode u antiamerikanizam sad.gif

#472 Indy

Indy
  • Members
  • 21,392 posts

Posted 08 November 2004 - 01:27

Jedna relativno optimisticna nota iz Amerike:

Predictions:

1. The neo-cons are history.

2. The fundamentalists and the religious right are history.

3. Israel will be put in line.

4. The new cabinet will reflect the rescue from the aforementioned.

This will happen because the true power in this country will sit president Bush down and tell him so. If you think the Rockefellers, Duponts, Fords, Waltons, Gates, et al, are going to sit idly by while the nation goes over the cliff, well, you don't know your history.

By the way, at Bush's press conference he already began to set a new tone; welcome to real politik.

~ Tom Gavin
(at antiwar.com)

#473 dzishn

dzishn
  • Members
  • 1,533 posts

Posted 08 November 2004 - 21:47

To the citizens of the United States of America :-

In the light of your failure to elect a proper President of the
USA and

thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the
revocation of your
independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen
Elizabeth II will
resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and
other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your
new prime minister
(The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who
have until
now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will
appoint a
minister for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and
the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated
next year
to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the
transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules
are introduced with immediate
effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English
Dictionary. Then
look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be
amazed at
just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U'
will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour',
skipping the letter
'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you
will learn to
spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end
your love
affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the
suffix "ize"
will be replaced by the suffix "ise". You will learn that the
suffix 'burgh
is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell
Pittsburgh
as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation.
Generally, you
should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up
"vocabulary".

Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler
noises such as
"like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication. Look up "interspersed". There will be no more
'bleeps' in the
Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad
language then
you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your
vocabulary

then you won't have to use bad language as often.

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft
know on

your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take
account of
the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian
accents. It
really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to
Cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You
will also have to

learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such
as "Taggart"
will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking
about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as
Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you
persist in calling it

Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g.
Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English
actors as the

good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to
play English
characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or
"Red Dwarf"

will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American
audience who
can't cope with the humour of occasional political
incorrectness.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save
The Queen",
but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you
to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only
one kind of
football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very
good game.
The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your
borders
may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You
will no

longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper
football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the
girls. It is a difficult
game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to
play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does
not involve stopping for
a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour
like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby
sevens side by
2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to
host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not
played outside of
America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world
beyond your
borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you
will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders" which is
baseball without
fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear
weapons if

they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware
that there is
a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The
Russians

have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "5hit". You
will no

longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be
allowed to own
or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable
peeler. Because
we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially
dangerous

items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a
vegetable peeler in
public.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2th will be
a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called
"Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are cr*p and it is
for your own
good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we
mean. All
road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will
start driving
on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go
metric with
immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.
Roundabouts
and metrication will help you understand the British sense of
humour.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call
French fries
are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian
though 97.85%
of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe)
are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you
insist on calling potato
chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and
fried in
animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which
should be
served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more
aggressive with
customers.

11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be
added to all
tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity
to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.

12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not
actually beer
at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British
Bitter will be
referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted
provenance
will be referred to as "Lager".

The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth
be referred
to as "Near-Frozen Knat's Urine", with the exception of the
product of the
American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as
"Weak Near-Frozen Knat's Urine". This will allow true Budweiser
(as manufactured
for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold
without risk
of confusion.

13. From December 1st the UK will harmonise petrol (or
"Gasoline" as you

will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005)
prices with the
former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the
former USA and
the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly
$6/US gallon
- get used to it).

14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns,
lawyers or
therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and
therapists shows that
you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be
handled by
adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without
suing someone
or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to
handle a gun.

15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you
shortly to

ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your cooperation.

#474 dzishn

dzishn
  • Members
  • 1,533 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 01:10

QUOTE(Indy @ 2 Nov 2004, 17:36)

QUOTE
Electronic voting machines in Florida may have awarded George W. Bush up to 260,000 more votes than he should have received, according to statistical analysis conducted by University of California, Berkeley graduate students and a professor, who released a study on Thursday.

The researchers likened their report to a beeping smoke alarm and called on Florida officials to examine the data and the voting systems in counties that used touch-screen voting machines to provide an explanation for the anomalies. The researchers examined the same numbers and variables in Ohio, but found no discrepancies there.

Their aim in releasing the report, the researchers said, was not to attack the results of the 2004 election in Florida, where Bush won by 350,000 votes, but to prompt election officials and the public to examine the e-voting systems and address the fact that there is no way to conduct a meaningful recount on the paperless machines.

The analysis -- which hasn't been formally peer-reviewed, but was examined by seven professors -- showed a discrepancy in the number of votes Bush received in counties that used the touch-screen machines and counties that used other types of voting equipment. The researchers examined numerous variables that might have affected the vote outcome. These included the number of voters, their median income, racial and age makeup and the change in voter turnout between the 2000 and 2004 elections. Using this information, they examined election results for the Republican and Democratic presidential candidates in the state in 1996, 2000 and 2004 to see how support for those candidates and parties measured over eight years in Florida's 67 counties.

They discovered that in the 15 counties using touch-screen voting systems, the number of votes granted to Bush far exceeded the number of votes Bush should have received -- given all of the other variables -- while the number of votes that Bush received in counties using other types of voting equipment lined up perfectly with what the variables would have predicted for those counties.

The total number of excessive votes ranged between 130,000 and 260,000, depending on what kind of problem caused the excess votes. The counties most affected by the anomaly were heavily Democratic.

Sociology professor Michael Hout, who chairs the university's graduate Sociology and Demography group, said the chance for such a discrepancy to occur was less than 1 in 1,000.

"No matter how many factors and variables we took into consideration, the significant correlation in the votes for President Bush and electronic voting cannot be explained," he said in a statement. "There is just a trivial probability of evidence like this appearing in a population where the true difference is zero -- less than once in a thousand chances."

The three counties where anomalies were most prevalent were Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade. In Broward, statistical analysis showed that Bush should have received 28,000 fewer votes this year than in 2000. In fact, he received 51,000 more votes than expected, for a net gain of 81,000 votes. In Palm Beach county, analysis showed that Bush should have received 8,900 fewer votes. But instead he gained 41,000. In Miami-Dade county he was expected to gain votes, but by much less than he actually did. According to the researchers he should have received only 18,400 more votes, but he actually received 37,000, a gain of 19,300 beyond the expectation.

Both Broward and Miami-Dade counties use machines made by Election Systems & Software, while Palm Beach county uses machines made by Sequoia Voting Systems. No Florida counties used touch-screen machines made by Diebold Election Systems, the company whose machines have received the most scrutiny over the last year.

A representative for Election Systems & Software called the study "hypothetical."

"If you consider real-world experience, we know that ES&S' touch-screen voting system has been proven in thousands of elections throughout the country," said Jill Friedman-Wilson. "Based on this solid track record -- as well as the extensive testing process that is required before equipment may be used in an election -- we are confident in the security, reliability and accuracy of all of our voting systems."

Susan Van Houten, cofounder of Palm Beach Coalition for Election Reform, was not surprised by the Berkeley report.

"I've believed the same thing for a while that the numbers are screwy and it looks like they proved it," Van Houten said.

Van Houten said her group had received a number of reports from voters who said that when they voted for Kerry on the Sequoia machines, the review screen showed that the vote had been cast for Bush. The review screen lets voters review their choices before casting their ballot. Van Houten said she was concerned that the same thing may have happened to many other voters who didn't carefully check the review screen before casting their ballot.

"From the computer experts I spoke to, it’s relatively easy to program something into the system so that only every 50th vote would automatically go to Bush," Van Houten said. If this were the case, election officials would be less likely to think there was a problem with the machine if only a few voters noticed it.

Jenny Nash, press secretary for the Florida Department of State, said she would not comment on a report that she had not yet read. She said Florida had been using its current voting systems since 2002 and had "delivered hundreds of successful elections using the systems."

"Florida has one of the most rigorous certification processes in the nation," Nash said. "After a system is certified for use ... then every single voting systems is tested prior to the election, sealed, and then that seal is not broken until Election Day. We have never had any reports from supervisors of machines malfunctioning or of votes being lost."

"I think that's a joke," Van Houten said. "As a poll worker in the primary (election), I personally witnessed three machines go down."

Van Houten's group, which monitored polling places on Nov. 2, found that at least 40 of 798 machines they monitored were unable to print out a final tally tape at the end of the night. In Florida, poll workers are supposed to print out two tallies from each machine -- one for county officials and another for posting at the polls so that voters can see what the tallies were.

"In around 40 cases that didn't occur," Van Houten said. "I personally observed that during the primary as well. A machine just went down and flashed a message that it needed service repair. It didn't print out a tally."

Graduate students from Berkeley's Quantitative Methods Research Team launched the research project after following debates in the blogosphere about possible fraud in the election. After examining and discounting many other theories, such as ones involving optical-scan machines in Florida, they decided to look at counties that used touch-screen voting machines.

Touch-screen machines became the focus of much debate last year when computer scientists who examined the systems released several reports showing that the machines were vulnerable to hacking and vote manipulation. The testing and certification process for approving voting systems has also been roundly criticized by computer experts and voting activists as being inadequate.

The researchers would not speculate on possible causes for the vote discrepancies in Florida; they said they would leave it to officials to figure that out.


www.wired.com