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VN Belgije 2015


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#166 romantik

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 16:54

Grozan konacno na podijumu, ja sretan ko malo dete  :thumbs:  iako mi je Vettel upropastio fantazi tim :)

Reno je bio jako solidan, Kfiat, Verstapen su imali dosta dobrih momenata.

Force India me bas razocarala, em je nIko otpao i pre starta, em su Pereza obilazili na pravu, a mislio sam da je to mnemoguce.

 

Williams!? Kao da im je nko montirao Hondin motor pozadi, a u garazu stavio Ferarijeve mehanicare, ocaj zivi!



#167 Rad-oh-yeah?

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:27

Sebastian Vettel ended Sunday's Belgian grand prix with a foul mood -- and a mandatory visit to the stewards.

So angry was the Ferrari driver with his late-race Pirelli tyre blowout that he forgot to deliver himself to the FIA's Jo Bauer to be weighed.

He was busier doubting Pirelli chief Paul Hembery's claim that it was not the tyre's fault for his potentially title chance-ending failure, but a simple matter of "wear".

"It's bullsh*t," German Vettel raged, saying the quality of the Italian brand's tyres is "unacceptable". "If that had happened earlier, I'm not standing here now, I'm stuck in Eau Rouge and in hospital."

As the chequered flag waved at Spa-Francorchamps, it was clear that two more paddock fights were also playing out.

The first is at Lotus, even though Romain Grosjean scored an against-the-odds podium -- the Enstone team's first since 2013.

In the pits, however, court bailiffs may now be moving in to impound the black and gold cars, due to legal action brought by former reserve driver Charles Pic.

"I've heard our cars have been impounded," confirmed engineer Alan Permane to Britain's Sky, "but I'm sure it will be sorted early next week."

Finally, Red Bull has confirmed that it is seeking an 'amicable separation' to its contract with Renault, as a deal with Mercedes for 2016 potentially looms.

"I have to say that (an amicable separation) sounds pretty good," team official Dr Helmut Marko said, amid suggestions Renault is determined for Red Bull to comply with the deal.

And Bernie Ecclestone is also urging Mercedes to play along, warning the German carmaker to "think very carefully before saying no" to Red Bull's engine request, according to the Sunday Times.

 

Niki Lauda has leapt to Pirelli's defence, after Sebastian Vettel launched a stinging attack on the F1 tyre supplier following the Belgian grand prix.

Following the high-speed blowout that essentially ended the Ferrari driver's outside shot at the 2015 title, Vettel slammed the quality of Pirelli's tyres.

It was the second blowout of the weekend for a rear Pirelli tyre at fabled Spa-Francorchamps, following Nico Rosberg's on Friday.

Vettel launched an attack on Pirelli via the media after the race, but he reportedly also accosted Paul Hembery face-to-face in the paddock.

There are differing accounts of what Vettel told the Briton, but Germany's Bild newspaper claims he said to Hembery: "Your tyres are extremely dangerous".

Pirelli hit back in the form of an official statement, saying teams refused to accept a proposal in 2013 to set a maximum number of laps per tyre set.

"These conditions, if applied today at Spa, would have limited the maximum number of laps on the medium compound to 22," the statement read.

And Hembery told the press: "I understand Sebastian's frustration but Ferrari took a risk and it didn't come off."

While admitting Vettel's one-stop strategy was "aggressive", Ferrari boss Maurizio Arrivabene denied that it was unreasonably risky.

"We have an engineer from Pirelli -- what do you think he is for?" he said. "He's not there to chew gum but to follow all the runs. We had zero warning. I can show you the paper," added Arrivabene.

Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff, however, hit out at Vettel for pointing the finger so accusatorily at Pirelli.

"It is understandable that Ferrari tried the strategy and that Vettel is sour," he said, "but I have to defend Pirelli.

"It was a conscious decision by Ferrari to take a risk. We took measures after our puncture on Friday and even considered a third stop."

Lauda agreed: "Ferrari should not complain if a risky strategy does not work out. What Vettel said about his tyre partner is not right and I would not accept it from one of our drivers."

Christian Danner, a former driver turned pundit for German television, added: "Basically, Niki is 100 per cent right.

"As it is always in motor sport, when you go to the limit, it can go wrong for you."

Not quite on his bosses' side, however, is Nico Rosberg, who had the unexplained 300kph blowout on Friday.

After Vettel's race incident, the Mercedes driver said: "Somehow we need to make it safer. So if they are not able to solve the problem in the two weeks before Monza, which again is very high speed, then we need to have something in place after that."

Other teams are also concerned. Lotus engineer Alan Permane told Auto Motor und Sport: "If Pirelli tells us that the tyre lasts for 40 laps, then it should not fail after 28."



#168 DASUBO

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 13:24

Ako zaista ništa nije ukazivalo da će taj pneumatik d'umre, onda su Arivabene i Vetel u pravu. Ako je temperatura bila ok, ako se pritisci nisu kolebali, ako davači broja obrtaja na točkovima nisu prijavljivali različite vrednosti na pravcu (to ukazuje da se nagazni profil deformiše previše), onda su u Ferariju u pravu.

 

Ok, Pireli je uzeo debelu marginu sigurnosti i rekao to će da traje toliko i toliko, ali postavlja se drugo pitanje. Ako je konstrukcija pneumatika takva da "ne javlja" kad će doći do kolapsa kako verovati da su podaci vezani za pneumatike validni čak i kada se menjaju na prema Pirelijevim željama? Sa druge strane, šta znači timu Pirelijev čovek u boxu? Da skuplja podatke za Pireli? Zabole baš šefove timova za to.

 

Potpuno razumem Vetela što je flipnuo. U pravu je. Da ciknula guma u o'ružu golemo bi nagrajisao, da ne kažem nešto gore.

 

Jedno su zahtevi FIA, drugo je kako će se konstrukcijski to izvesti. Ta guma mora da javi min pola kruga da će'dumre. Sve ostalo je sranje i sklanjanje iza proglasa, pamfleta, uputstva za upotrebu i sličnog.

 

Ovo što se izdešavalo u Spa je vrlo ozbiljna opomena pred Moncu. Bog retko šalje opomene dva puta.



#169 Downforce

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 16:21

Koliko god da sam popizdeo juce zbog odluke koja je bila umobolna na vise nivoa, to ne sme da rezultuje eksplozijom gume. Ok da izgubi performanse, da bude 4s sporiji zbog rizicne taktike, ali da se guma raspadne u 28 krugu a Pireli je u fazonu da moze i 40 da izgura - to nikako nije u redu.

 

Ovo je slika tokom kvalifikacija:

 

urATzlx.jpg

 

Standing waves
The most dangerous aspect of vibrations of tyres at high speeds of rolling is the so-called standing wave problem. This phenomenon could especially appear for tyres rolling at high speeds. In these conditions of rolling, waves are formed on the tyre behind the contact patch. Because the waves present a stationary appearance to an observer, they have been called standing waves. The tyre operation at the critical speed determines its rapid failure due to the mechanical overstress and heat, which are conducive to tyre disintegration.

 

Ukoliko se Ferrari pridrzavao uputstava o pritiscima i nagibu tockova, Pirelli bi morao prilicno da se uozbilji. Ovo ne bi smelo da se desava u normalnim uslovima.

 

Glavu dajem da je i kod Rosberga bilo istih problema.



#170 DASUBO

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 18:16

To je to 'Force. Bravo.

#171 alberto.ascari

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 21:08

Odluka je bila skroz OK, Pirelli tvrdi da guma izdrzi 40 krugova, mi idemo na 30 kad oces qratz! Rizik se nije isplatio, samo sto je trebalo da mu leti dupe po celoj stazi kad umire guma a ne da jebne ovako direktno u eksploziju.

Mene je ovo vratilo u vreme Todt/Brawn/MSC kada su neke takticke odluke izgledale suludo a donele su uspeh.

Vecinom, nekad smo i ukenjali.

#172 alpiner

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 16:25

My notebook at Spa
August 25, 2015 by Joe Saward

I have been having a look through my notebook from Spa and this is a summary of the rumours and stories that were circulating over the weekend. Formula 1 reconvened after the summer break and discussions about the driver market were focussed on Williams and McLaren as a result of the announcement that Kimi Raikkonen is staying at Ferrari. This flew in the face of earlier suggestions from Italy that Kimi would be replaced by Valtteri Bottas.

There is no question that Ferrari went to Williams and asked for Bottas, but it seems that the bill that would have gone with a transfer was too much even for the deep-pocketed folk in Maranello. The stories about the number involved vary, but it seems that Williams wanted 10 million in one currency or another, in order to release the Finn from the two years that are left on his contract there. However, it might be that this was only done in order to convince Raikkonen that a pay cut might be a good idea. Kimi has been earning rather well of late and it seems that some in Italy do not think his results match his pay-check and the word is that come January 2016, the numbers will be about 75 percent less than they have been, probably with a sensible bonus scheme to keep him interested in success. With the Ferrari IPO coming up in a few weeks, the company wants to look lean and hungry and so some of the fat in F1 has been trimmed.

The word in Spa was that in preparation for the IPO, the team has also extended its arrangements with James Allison, who joined the team in the autumn of 2013. The suggestion I have heard is that James has agreed to a further three years as the man in charge of all things technical at Gestione Sportiva. Allison spent five years at Maranello earlier in his career and is comfortable with the lifestyle in Italy. He has played a big role in getting the team up to speed and is still leading that charge. This made him a rather attractive proposition for some other teams, looking for new technical leadership, but it seems that Ferrari has recognised the danger and has now tied him in for the long term.

I heard at Spa that Williams is in the process of concluding an important alliance that will stabilise its financial situation for the long term. It seems to be rather more than a traditional sponsorship, but there is not much detail available. What is clear is that the team has been trying to squeeze more cash from its current supporters as some of them, notably Martini, got very good deals when they signed with the team. Now, with much better results, the space on the cars is worth a lot more so one can imagine that there will be changes when the deals come up for renewal. The team is not expected to change its driver line-up in 2016, although I am led to believe that discussions with Jenson Button were quite advanced when it looked as though Bottas might be off to Italy.

From what I now hear, Jenson will be staying at McLaren in 2016 with Fernando Alonso and GP2 champion-to-be Stoffel Vandoorne. This means that Kevin Magnussen will probably be on the market. It seems that all of these factors convinced Nico Hulkenberg that it is best to get himself sorted out with Force India and I heard a whisper at Spa that The Hulk has just agreed to a new two-year deal. I suspect that he will include a clause that would allow him to escape if a big team comes calling.

One intriguing rumour I did hear was that Aston Martin is still out there looking to become a sponsor of a Mercedes-engined F1 team. This might explain the rumours about Williams having a deal as Aston Martin, James Bond and Martini would all be a lovely fit if stirred but not shaken. Aston is also looking for help designing new road cars – hence the rumours of an Adrian Newey supercar with Red Bull – but one can envisage a suitable product emerging from Grove, where there was a team of engineers at Williams Advanced Engineering designing the abortive Jaguar X75 hybrid supercar. Perhaps we might see a similar concept for Aston Martin. Williams, incidentally, recently signed a £17 million contract to design and manufacture systems for General Dynamics UK’s new Scout armoured vehicle, which will be supplied to the British Army between 2017 and 2024. Having said that, at Spa I also heard the name Aston Martin associated with Force India, on the basis that the car company would get more space on the cars with the Silverstone team than it would for the same money with other teams. Vijay Mallya took the odd step of telling journalists that he is talking to Renault, which is not what F1 teams generally do when there are secret discussions going on, and so one must conclude that he let this slip in an effort to hurry up some other deal. The funding of Force India is going to be interesting because Mallya’s empire in India is contracting and he is in legal action with Diageo, which is an add situation to be in when the drinks company is your primary sponsor in F1. Mallya’s business partner in Force India, Roy Subrata, remains in jail in India. The country has much potential for Aston Martin, which is in the process of trying to double its production by 2018. While a car company sponsoring an F1 team with another car company’s engine in the back may sound a bit odd, it should be remembered that Mercedes supplies road car engines to Aston Martin and owns five percent of the English (although Italian-owned) supercar company. It is not that different from having the bizarre concept of Lotus-Mercedes F1 cars…

This brings us to the big question at the moment in F1 – the future of the Lotus F1 Team. Things are not great at the moment, despite Romain Grosjean’s terrific performance in Spa. In the course of the weekend Charles Pic sent bailiffs into the paddock to try to secure settlement over a dispute he has been having with the team over his role as a test driver who did no testing.

This is a relatively insignificant problem as Lotus’s problems go, but it got plenty of coverage. The team is up to its neck in debt and the creditors are beginning to get worried. Renault has been looking to buy the team for months but has been hesitating because, apparently, they are worried about what they might find if they buy the team in its current state. The option is to organise a pre-packaged administration agreement that would mean that the team would go into administration for a few days but with a rescue package already in place. That would need to be agreed by a majority of the creditors but if the buyer is likely to bring more business in the future, most creditors will accept a deal (as happened with Manor last winter). This would mean that the team could restart with a clean slate and if Renault was to take over the designers would immediately start work on a car with Renault engines for 2016. The team’s rights and benefits will remain in place as long as the company is not declared insolvent at any point. From what I hear Renault has now agreed to put together a plan to go to the board and if that is accepted then it could all happen very quickly. This would be great news for Enstone. One would imagine that Renault would ship in Bob Bell to run things and put Alain Prost in a chairman role, similar to that Niki Lauda has with Mercedes. This would encourage engineers to go back to Enstone and would be good for F1 as it would cement the future of the once-great team, which won the World Championship as recently as 2006 (when it was previously under Renault ownership). Romain Grosjean would lead the team and there would be quite a competition for the second seat, although Renault would have the financial clout not to need to take money and so Pastor Maldonado’s future would likely to be limited.

There would likely be other knock-on effects of a Renault takeover of Lotus with Red Bull and Scuderia Toro Rosso being in the firing line. The Red Bull team has a deal with Renault until the end of 2016 but it is an unhappy relationship and if Renault comes back with a factory team, Red Bull will be unlikely to renew that relationship. The problem is that there is no obvious engine supplier to replace Renault. Red Bull’s options are fairly limited because it does not seem able to attract a new manufacturer and does not really want Ferrari or Honda customer engines. The best option is Mercedes, but while there are attractions of such an arrangement, it is tempting fate as Red Bull might easily beat the Mercedes factory team and if not would likely make a lot of negative noise about the engines. On the other hand, there is an argument that Mercedes might be able to benefit from Red Bull’s young customers. Mercedes would also be seen to acting in the best interests wealthy of the sport, which is no bad thing for them, while also getting more political power as it would have influence in more teams. The other element that has not been much discussed is the fact that Mercedes and Renault are involved in an industrial alliance which is far bigger than F1 and so Mercedes is not going to do anything to jeopardise that. Poaching one of Renault’s teams in F1 and thus causing its partner some difficulties is not going to happen. However, if Renault does not care about losing Red Bull then this might happen. One sticking point might be a very specific gagging order on Red Bull personnel because the team has a record of trashing partners (Renault, Pirelli etc) when things do not go right. The other option for Red Bull is to shut up and rekindle the relationship with Renault for a few more years, while waiting for a new manufacturer to come along. The team says that Red Bull might get out of F1 if it does not have a factory engine deal, but there is not much sympathy for the company amongst the other teams. If Red Bull does walk the teams would be sold and there would be new owners. Aabar is already a partner in Scuderia Toro Rosso and could take over that business, while a solution would no doubt be found for Red Bull Racing.

The other suggestion I have heard is that we could see Manor using Mercedes engines in 2016, rather than the old Ferrari engines that are currently being employed. The team is building up its numbers rapidly at the moment, is fitting out a new factory in Banbury, a building next to the new Prodrive factory. It seems that the factory actually belongs to Prodrive and will be leased by Manor, but the team should be in there by the end of September. If Lotus switches to Renault engines Manor could get Mercedes power units and from what I hear this would be entirely independent of any possible deals between Red Bull and Mercedes. Mercedes would need to ask permission from the FIA to supply engines to a fifth team, but the federation is unlikely to do anything to stop that happening, as it rarely says “Boo” to anyone in F1 outside Race Control and the Scrutineering Bay.

Every new customer represents more revenue for Mercedes while also meaning more data and the potential of additional cars between Mercedes and Ferrari… The Italians might not be happy about this, but if it offered customers a realistic chance of success using its engines, perhaps it would be able to attract more of them.

The last note in the Spa notebook is that Phil Kerr, one of the early members of the McLaren team has died in his native New Zealand at the age of 81. Kerr was hill-climbing with an Austin Seven when he first met Bruce McLaren in 1951. He studied business management and was running an engineering company when McLaren suggested to Jack Brabham that he might be a useful recruit. Kerr helped Brabham set up his operations in Chessington and also took Denny Hulme there, as he was also acting as Denny’s manager. After Denny won the World Championship with Brabham in 1967, Kerr and Hulme moved to McLaren where he was joint Managing-Director with Bruce McLaren while Denny drove F1 and CanAm. The two men played an important role in keeping the team together after McLaren’s death but as Teddy Mayer took over running the operation Kerr was moved across to run the semi-works Yardley McLaren team and then when Hulme retired as a driver, Kerr decided to return home to New Zealand where he built up several successful businesses in the 1980s and 1990s.

https://joesaward.wo...tebook-at-spa/?



#173 alberto.ascari

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:31

http://youtu.be/ryduNpTYimQ





#174 Rad-oh-yeah?

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 21:29

http://www.grandprix...em-an-inch.html

 

STRAIGHT TALK
Give them an inch...
AUGUST 28, 2015
BY LUIS VASCONCELOS


Give them an inch...and they'll take a mile, I found myself thinking during the Belgian Grand Prix, last weekend. Through the once daunting Eau Rouge/Radillon section, on the exit of left hander before Pouhon or just before the corner now named after Paul Frere, many drivers were going completely off the track to achieve better lap times, from the start of free practice until the end of the race. The FIA had asked the Belgians to place a "sausage kerb" at the top of the Radillon but after many drivers went over it during the two Friday sessions it was removed for being "scary and dangerous" according to some of the drivers we heard on the subject. Going slower and avoiding it didn't seem to be an option they would contemplate though.

Once the kerb was removed, everyone seemed to seize the opportunity to straighten the last and most demanding leg of the Eau Rouge/Radillon sequence, which is now an easy flat section of this great track, but I reckon would still be a very difficult corner if the drivers would have to keep their cars inside the white lines - it certainly wouldn't be flat on cold tyres and full tanks, I can tell you!

What happened in Spa-Francorchamps sums up the current struggle between the push to make the sport as safe as possible and the risk of making it too easy for any reasonably competent driver. Make a mistake and you have a huge run off area with a lot of grip you can use to stay in the race without losing any meaningful time; use the kerbs and the start of the run-off areas cleverly, in some areas of the track, and you may even gain an advantage, seems to be the mantra of these days.

Drivers, quite rightly, keep pushing for safer tracks, bigger run off areas and flatter kerbs to make sure they won't get hurt if they go off because of a mechanical failure and a lot has been done over the last 21 years to accommodate their demands. But this drive for safety has had two negative consequences: it's now far more difficult for a better driver to gain an advantage over the rest of the field than it was 20 years ago because the harder challenges have been removed; and we're now in the hands of marshals reports, TV pictures, the Race Director's criteria and the Race Stewards' decisions as they report and penalise or let the drivers get away as they go over the track limits again and again and again. Warnings, time and drive-through penalties are now part of motor racing because there are no walls or guardrails to automatically "penalise" those who would go over the limit.

I'm not advocating a return to the days where trees and barbed wire were the track limits because you cannot go back in time and what was acceptable 40 years ago is not acceptable now - have a look at how the drivers raced in the 1970 Mexican Grand Prix, with spectators sitting by the kerbs and you'll know what I mean - but the truth is that danger instilled discipline and that doesn't apply only to track limits, it certainly applies to track manners too.

The new generation of drivers lives in the belief they cannot get seriously hurt racing cars and gets a tremendous shock when someone is injured or dies as a consequence of a racing accident. Sadly, we've had two high profile examples of the dangers that motor racing involve over the last couple of months, with the deaths of Jules Bianchi and Justin Wilson, but a couple of months before that we had shocking examples of how lax track manners are these days during the Monza and Spa-Francorchamps rounds of the FIA Formula 3 Championship. I don't know how powerful the guardian angels of the Formula 3 kids are, but they certainly were busy during those two weekends as it was a miracle none of them got killed after cutting across the path of other drivers on the straights or high speed corners, going - or sending the others - to barrel roll over guard rails.

It's a bit too late to try and discipline the Formula One drivers the hard way but the FIA has in Formula 4 the perfect worldwide arena to make the new generation of drivers understand racing is done within the track limits and giving the other drivers one inch more than they need to fit their cars.

How difficult would it be to put sensors on the white lines - or use GPS tracking - and in the four wheels of the tiny Formula 4 cars and penalise whoever would go over the track limits on two occasions during a race? But I'm not talking about a 5s penalty, for that would hardly be a deterrent - I'm talking about a drive through penalty that would effectively end the infringing driver's chances of scoring points. Three offs and you're out would be another possible penalty drivers would be keen to avoid, because the unfortunate truth is that while drivers demand as much safety as possible when they are out of their cars, they'll use everything they can to their advantage once racing starts. As they're not able to discipline themselves and it's no longer acceptable to bring serious and permanent danger back, penalties using the technology that is already available - and imposing them from the moment the drivers leave karting and get into single seater racing - seems to be the only way to go.