687 replies to this topic

[Wingman]

Zvuk ovogodišnjih "pogonskih jedinica",je drastično lošiji,zbog nižeg broja obrtaja i zatvorenijeg izduva. Veću maksimalnu brzinu omogućuje osmobrzinski menjač i redukovana aerodinamika. Zanima me da li će se u Monci motori vrteti na limitu. Evo malo statistike (porazavajuće za Ferari).

 

 

2014 ENGINE STATS

Wins           Poles          Fastest laps   Podiums        Led laps
                                                                         
Mercedes   9   Mercedes  12   Mercedes  10   Mercedes  26   Mercedes  639
Renault    3   Renault    0   Renault    1   Renault    8   Renault    71
Ferrari    0   Ferrari    0   Ferrari    1   Ferrari    2   Ferrari    32

[Downforce]

Bolidi su sporiji zbog aerodinamike, a ne zbog "ustrojenih" motora (koji, gle cuda, imaju veci obrtni momenat i maksimalnu snagu od "neustrojenih"), al' jebiga Markiz i Berni kazu da su motori sranje onda to mora da je tako, iako su na svim stazama maksimalne brzine na pravcima drasticno porasle...

Daj bre nemoj da me zajebavas. Kakvi markizi i Berniji. To nije stvar navijanja. Hiljadu puta sam rekao i tvrdim i dalje, ovo je krajnje ustrojenje motora. Razumem ekolosku komponentu, razumem sve sto navode kao razloge - ali ni u ludilu to meni ne moze biti jednako uzbudljivo kao zveri koje vriste na 160 decibela.

 

Preziveo sam to, gledam ih ovako ustrojene, ali daj nemoj da nas stalo podsecas na to sta smo izgubili.

 

Previse je bolno.

[DASUBO]

Meni je fascinantno da su ovi motori brži od prošlogodišnjih sa sve nižom potrošnjom od 30% i ograničenim protokom goriva.
Zvuk jeste shit, ali i tome ima leka. Samo što je ove sezone neprimenjiv.
A da je glupo koristiti termin uštrojeni, glupo je.

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Meni je fascinantno da su ovi motori brži od prošlogodišnjih sa sve nižom potrošnjom od 30% i ograničenim protokom goriva.
Zvuk jeste shit, ali i tome ima leka. Samo što je ove sezone neprimenjiv.
A da je glupo koristiti termin uštrojeni, glupo je.

 

Upravo tako.

[alberto.ascari]

Mislim da je u Spa na kraju Kemmel pravca bila letos max brzina 340km/h. Ne znam da li smo imali ranije zabelezene tako visoke brzine.

[alpiner]

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff says the German marque could be open to F1's engine freeze being lifted.

With Mercedes dominating the start of the sport's new turbo era, there have been calls from rivals Ferrari and Renault to relax the rules, which currently only permit changes on the grounds of safety, reliability or costs.

The idea was discussed during a meeting of F1's Strategy Group at Monza on Friday, with Wolff stating in the subsequent press conference for team bosses that Mercedes would support a lift if it is suitably implemented.

"Obviously we have a competitive advantage, it's pretty clear, but we would take the challenge on," said Wolff.

"We are now 12 races into a season and we've had that advantage. Is it the time at the moment to change the rules to change something? Maybe. I think we did... the discussions we've had so far were pretty open.

"There are various concepts on the table and if we decide to go completely in the opposite direction and open it up completely, this will increase the costs quite dramatically. I'm not sure if we could deliver all the same engines, all the same specification of engines to everybody. Logistically it's not feasible, so the devil lies in the detail."

Japanese firm Honda will join Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault in supplying Formula 1 engines next season.

[alpiner]

Cosworth eyes F1 return with affordable V6 - report

Cosworth could be eyeing a return to Formula One, with the support of none other than Bernie Ecclestone.
Although the expensive new engine rules and a lack of customers sent the British company off the grid at the end of last year, Cosworth announced recently it is setting up a new manufacturing centre at its Northampton base.
The company confirmed that the facility, to "deliver the next generation of automotive internal combustion engines", is bolstered by a British government grant.
And according to Speed Week, there may even be an F1 component to Cosworth's next plans.
Buying a turbo V6 from one of just three alternative suppliers - Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault - has rarely been as expensive for struggling customer teams as it is today.
Correspondent Mathias Brunner reports: "I have heard from England that Cosworth is working on a modern power unit for Formula One, and behind the scenes is a certain Bernard Ecclestone.
"The market could certainly do with a not-so-expensive turbo V6," he added.
Brunner said Cosworth did not comment.
 
http://www.motorspor...ble-v6-report/?

[Wingman]

Mečka

 

 

[alpiner]

Mercedes will block move to relax F1 engine development rule
 
Mercedes say they will block any move to relax the rule restricting in-season engine development.
Rivals of the new world champions are pushing for at least one development step during a season, in the hope of reducing Mercedes' advantage.
But Mercedes say they cannot do that and continue to provide engines to customer teams at their current cost.
Christian Horner, boss of Renault's works team Red Bull, says relaxing the rules is in the sport's interests.
Horner pointed to Mercedes driver Nico Rosberg's climb from the back of the field to finish second in Sunday's Russian Grand Prix, in which cars with Mercedes engines finished in the first five positions, as evidence something needed to be done to equalise the performance across engine manufacturers.
 
"Mercedes' true performance is they can drive through the field, and I think it's too out of kilter - five Mercedes-powered cars in the top five," Horner said.
This is the first season in which F1 cars are using turbo hybrid engines.
In order to keep costs under control, a complicated formula restricting development was imposed, with changes only allowed mid-season for reliability and cost-saving purposes and increasing restrictions on the parts that can be changed ahead of subsequent seasons.
Horner said: "This technology is still quite raw. Mercedes shouldn't be afraid of competition. They're doing a super job but I think it's healthy for F1 that Ferrari, Honda and Renault should have the ability to close that gap, otherwise we'll end up in a very stagnant position."
But Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said he had pointed out to his team's rivals that a relaxation of restrictions on development would not necessarily lead to an equalisation of performance between manufacturers and that it would increase costs.
"We still think it is the wrong thing to do because it is going to increase the cost massively," Wolff said. "And who says the margin is not going to stay the same?
 
"So we all spend much more to find it is the same.
"But there are certain regulatory contradictions. We were asked to guarantee engines at the time at the same spec to all customers at the same price and we can't do that if we are having in-season development."
Horner acknowledged the possibility of Mercedes maintaining or even extending their advantage if restrictions were relaxed.
"Quite possibly," he said. "But at least you've got the ability to try and improve because at the moment you're frozen with what you've got. You're running with your hands tied behind your back."
McLaren racing director Eric Boullier, whose team are starting a new partnership with Honda, added: "We all believe we will learn from our mistakes."
Horner said Wolff had initially backed the idea of a relaxation of the engine freeze at a meeting last month only to backtrack later.
Wolff said this was because of "changing circumstances" and the increased costs of such a step and he rejected claims by Ferrari that engines could continue to be provided to customer teams for no extra cost if in-season development was allowed.
 
"I don't know how they make their calculations but probably I need to send them a calculator because there is no way you will not spend more," Wolff said.
"You will spend considerably more and every other argument is because they don't think they are where they should be [competitively]."
To be passed for 2015, the engine 'unfreeze', as it is known, has to go through several regulatory steps.
It was passed by a majority vote in a recent meeting of F1's strategy group, which comprises commercial boss Bernie Ecclestone, the president of governing body the FIA Jean Todt and the Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Williams and Lotus teams.
But to be in the 2015 regulations it must receive unanimous support at the next meeting of the F1 Commission, on which sit Ecclestone, Todt, and representatives of all the teams, as well as some sponsors and circuit owners.
Wolff, who is under pressure from Ecclestone to change his position, said: "We have already voted against it in the strategy group. I don't think we will change our mind in the next month, whenever the commission meeting is going to take place."
 
http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/29604927

 

Za mene će verovatno narednih par sezona, kao i ova, otprilike izgledati ovako:

 

[alpiner]

Mercedes has revealed it boosted spending on F1 by 17% to a record £325M last year...

Od toga £133.9M je otišlo na motore i zaista pozamašna cifra od £190.7M za ostale troškove tima.

 

Kol'ko para toliko i muzike

[Dzoni_m]

Uvek bilo. 

[alpiner]

Renault recruits Illien to improve F1 engine

Mario Illien is being brought in by Renault to help the struggling French marque get up to speed in the new turbo V6 era.

Renault has recruited renowned F1 engine guru Mario Illien as it and works partner Red Bull vow to close the gap on dominant Mercedes.

As efforts to relax the sport's so-called engine 'freeze' look set to fail in the face of Mercedes' defiance, Germany's Auto Motor und Sport reveals that Renault has hit back by signing up one of the most famous engine designers in F1 history.

Swiss Illien had departed the F1 scene and dabbled in Indy and even MotoGP projects, but he is best remembered for his company, Ilmor, having produced title-winning Mercedes works engines for McLaren.

Now, the talented engineer is being brought in by Renault to help the struggling French marque get up to speed in the new turbo V6 era.

Auto Motor und Sport claims Illien may be a last roll of the dice for Renault, whose current 2.4 litre 'power unit' is said to be missing between 40-60 hp to the dominant Mercedes.

Disgruntled works partner Red Bull has been considering going it alone with engine design, while Renault is losing two customers -- Lotus to Mercedes, and Caterham to failure.

"The business model is no longer working for Renault," said correspondent Michael Schmidt, "because there is EUR 40 million less in the kitty.

"If it continues like this, you have to expect Carlos Ghosn to question the F1 project, as he is known as an ice-cold numbers man."

http://www.motorspor...ove-f1-engine/?

 

Edit 4/11: Illien je kontaktiran kao jedam od mogućih dobavljača komponenti i neće raditi na konstrukciji motora

Edited by alpiner, 04 November 2014 - 14:19.

[alpiner]

Mercedes ready to accept engine freeze deal

Mercedes is ready to accept a compromise on relaxing Formula 1's engine freeze, but only as a one-off for 2015.

Following meetings over the United States Grand Prix weekend, a fresh proposal to allow the freeze to be relaxed was tabled in a bid to ease Mercedes' resistance to change.

According to reports it will involve allowing a one-off window in July 2015 for a slightly modified engine to be introduced.

Mercedes has previously stated that it does not want the rules to be relaxed permanently because of fears over increased costs.

But high-level sources suggest the team may accept the compromise for 2015 if it can be confident budgets will not increase dramatically.

It is now evaluating the proposal in more detail to understand its implications before fresh talks are scheduled to take place at this weekend's Brazilian GP.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff said: "If this is the compromise needed to guarantee long-term stability and agree long term we are not going to change the rules every year, that is something we will look at.

"What we have said is we are calculating that, and we are looking at the effect of it. What does it mean financially? What does it mean logistically?

"We are a team which needs to deliver eight power units at a time. Honda does two, Ferrari and Renault four.

"So there's a big difference."

During discussions to frame the new turbo V6 regulations, an engine freeze was agreed to prevent costs getting out of control.

Once a power unit design was lodged with the FIA on February 28 2014, changes were only permitted during the season for "reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons".

A limited number of modifications are still allowed each winter. The scope of the change is limited by a 'token' system related to the individual components on the engine and its hybrid systems.

The entire power unit is made up of 66 'tokens', which are weighted individually between one and three depending on how important they are.

Ahead of 2015, five of these tokens are 'frozen' completely but there is scope to review the 61 remaining items if a manufacturer feels improvements are needed.

However, it cannot change all the parts. Only 32 tokens - approximately 48 per cent of the power unit - can be used for 2015.

Longer term, the restrictions increase each year. So for 2016, 38 per cent of the engine can be changed, going down to 30 per cent in 2017, 23 per cent in 2018 and just five per cent for 2019 and '20.

The proposal to lift the freeze is not designed to allow unlimited development, but to give manufacturers a bigger window to make changes.

So if, for example, they do not use up their full quota of tokens this winter, then under the latest proposal there will be a window to use 13 tokens early next season to introduce a new power unit in July.

https://uk.eurosport...842005--f1.html

[Wingman]

[Rad-oh-yeah?]

Mercedes has warned it will quit formula one if moves to revive the old V8 era are successful.

 

Amid the debate about costs driving small teams out of F1, and the separate argument about an engine development 'unfreeze', Bernie Ecclestone showed his hand by reiterating he is staunchly opposed to the new V6s.

 

"We need to change the regulations," the F1 chief executive told Sky television a week ago. "We're going to try to get rid of these (V6) engines.

 

"They don't do anything for anybody. They're not formula one," he insisted.

 

The 84-year-old Briton most certainly has some allies. Some of them are fans who miss the normally-aspirated V8 scream.

 

And Ecclestone also has many race promoters on side.

 

"I don't think there's any problem with the number of cars," said Austin promoter Bobby Epstein, who welcomed an 18-car grid to the US GP a week ago. "If the competition up front is good, the total number doesn't matter.

 

"But it would be great to hear them," he added.

 

It is at this point that the back-and-forth 'unfreeze' debate comes into play.

 

Although Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg have been wheel-to-wheel in 2014, Mercedes was utterly dominant and rival engine suppliers Renault and Ferrari are desperate for the rules to be relaxed so they can catch up.

 

Mercedes, having mastered the start of the new turbo era, is understandably reluctant.

 

"We were slowed down for five years running with aerodynamic restrictions," said Dr Helmut Marko, of F1's formerly-dominant force Red Bull.

 

"All we're asking of Mercedes is that they give us the chance to get closer," he told Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.

 

Mercedes has offered a slight compromise, but not all of what Renault and Ferrari are demanding.

 

Now, Ferrari, Renault and perhaps even Honda are threatening that if Mercedes continues to refuse, they will push through a total opening up of engine development for 2016 with the power of their majority vote.

 

That will send costs through the roof and almost certainly drive more teams out of business.

 

The golden solution to that might be to go down Ecclestone's road of reviving the cheaper and fan-pleasing V8 engines.

 

"No one likes to take a step backwards," Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said, "but sometimes you have to realise when something has gone wrong."

 

Indeed, struggling small teams like Lotus, Sauber and Force India would be much happier with an old, V8-style engine bill.

 

"None of us wanted the new engines," said Lotus owner Gerard Lopez, speaking for the struggling trio. "They were forced upon us."

 

He indicated he would not be opposed to another engine type being introduced, particularly if it was much cheaper.

 

"If I told Pastor or Romain that next year they're pedalling their car, they're not going to be particularly excited. But it would be way cheaper for us and I might actually make money," Lopez smiled.

 

Honda, however, is only returning to F1 next year because of the new, modern and more road-relevant engine formula.

 

And Niki Lauda, Mercedes' team chairman, warned that bringing back the V8s would have other drastic consequences.

 

"If V8 comes back," the F1 legend said, "Mercedes will be gone."