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#91 iPhuck10

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 20:21

QUOTE(kamichak @ 16 Jul 2007, 14:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
zanimljiv odgovor:
pa ni ovde ne idu svi na sve podforume.
pretpostavka je, dakle, da na dverskom forumu pedofilska manjina (sitna ali dinamitna) nece biti zanemarena.
konceptualno perfektno.

Zasto mislis da je manjina? dry.gif

#92 HattoriHanzo

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 20:44

QUOTE(PESC @ 16 Jul 2007, 21:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zasto mislis da je manjina? dry.gif


e moj pravnice, i toboznji demokrato, jel to presumcija nevinosti vazi selektivno?
jel ti to optuzujes ljude s kojima se ne slazes da su vecma pedofili,
ne nudeci pri tom nikakve dokaze makar i u formi osnovanih sumnji?
huh.gif

Edited by HattoriHanzo, 16 July 2007 - 20:45.


#93 iPhuck10

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 00:38

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 16 Jul 2007, 21:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
e moj pravnice, i toboznji demokrato, jel to presumcija nevinosti vazi selektivno?
jel ti to optuzujes ljude s kojima se ne slazes da su vecma pedofili,
ne nudeci pri tom nikakve dokaze makar i u formi osnovanih sumnji?
huh.gif

E, moj Hattori od Centralizovanog Mozga Hanzo, nisam mislio samo na pedofile, vec i na ultra-klero-nacionaliste, uterivache pravoslavlja i fasiste i one koji su blagosiljali zlocince.
Takvi su, nazalost, vecina medju vidljivima.
Malo ih je u SPC kao sto su Sava Janjic sa Kosova i Vanja iz Sarajeva.sad.gif

Edited by PESC, 18 July 2007 - 00:40.


#94 happylepsia

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 10:41

QUOTE(AlefShin @ 9 Jun 2007, 00:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hvala svima na iskrenim pozdravima-naravno i na ocekivanim idiotskim asocijacijama i trulom humoru. Necu se zabaviti dugo, dosao sam samo da izreklamiram forum na kome sam jedan od urednika-koliko sam mogao da primetim u ovih nekoliko meseci forumskog posta kvaziteoloske teme su vam jos mediokritetskije nego pre sto zasluzuje svaku pohvalu. Mislim, prevazici onako nesto nije lako...

Dakle, kao sto rekoh moja mala misija je uspela posto se prica o nasem forumu prosirila, tako da bi eventualna reakcija moderacije ionako bila zabadava. A vasi biseri gluposti, kada su teoloske teme u pitanju, ce za mene biti i ostati omiljena zabava-dakle, ne menjajte se...

Nemoj o biserima, molim te!
http://forum.b92.net...p;#entry1790478

#95 Zverilla

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 12:07

alo ljudi, njega nema na forumu od 10og juna
s kim se raspravljate????

(jedino mi nije jasno sto je kacio svoje slike koji moj ako ga forum vec ne interesuje)

#96 HattoriHanzo

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 13:03

QUOTE(kamichak @ 16 Jul 2007, 14:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
zanimljiv odgovor:
pa ni ovde ne idu svi na sve podforume.
pretpostavka je, dakle, da na dverskom forumu pedofilska manjina (sitna ali dinamitna) nece biti zanemarena.
konceptualno perfektno.
QUOTE(PESC @ 16 Jul 2007, 21:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zasto mislis da je manjina? dry.gif
QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 16 Jul 2007, 21:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

e moj pravnice, i toboznji demokrato, jel to presumcija nevinosti vazi selektivno?
jel ti to optuzujes ljude s kojima se ne slazes da su vecma pedofili,
ne nudeci pri tom nikakve dokaze makar i u formi osnovanih sumnji?
huh.gif
QUOTE(PESC @ 18 Jul 2007, 01:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

E, moj Hattori od Centralizovanog Mozga Hanzo, nisam mislio samo na pedofile, vec i na ultra-klero-nacionaliste, uterivache pravoslavlja i fasiste i one koji su blagosiljali zlocince.
Takvi su, nazalost, vecina medju vidljivima.
Malo ih je u SPC kao sto su Sava Janjic sa Kosova i Vanja iz Sarajeva.sad.gif






au da, stvarno...tacno si to mislio...
izvini, ne znam sta mi je bilo...
dry.gif

Edited by HattoriHanzo, 20 July 2007 - 13:04.


#97 faramir

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 15:01

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 16 Jul 2007, 21:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
e moj pravnice, i toboznji demokrato, jel to presumcija nevinosti vazi selektivno?
jel ti to optuzujes ljude s kojima se ne slazes da su vecma pedofili,
ne nudeci pri tom nikakve dokaze makar i u formi osnovanih sumnji?
huh.gif

Evo ti nekih podataka pa se utemeljuj do mile volje. rolleyes.gif

What percentage of priests have a homosexual orientation?
Nobody knows, with any degree of accuracy.
Any discussion of the role of homosexual orientation in the priesthood -- in fact any discussion of clergy abuse itself -- is hampered by a lack of hard, reliable data.
Some estimates of the percentage of current priests with a homosexual orientation:
Analysis of the estimates of others:
According to Amanda Ripley of Time Magazine, estimates range from 15% to 50%. 3
According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%." 4
Personal estimates: Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. He once estimated that 30% of the priesthood is homosexually oriented. 5 Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation. 6 He told the Boston Globe: "If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually oriented, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the church's operation...It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it's very much against the tradition of the church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation is not going to solve the problem."
Sister Maryanne Walsh, spokesperson for the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, said that it would it be difficult to find evidence to support these Sipe's estimates of the percentage of gay men in the priesthood. She feels that it is also irrelevant. She said: "There’s no real purpose in saying whether someone is homosexual or heterosexual. The issue is whether they can make a commitment [to chastity]." 6
Bishop Jerome Listecki is an auxiliary bishop in Chicago. He estimates that "perhaps more than 10%" of priests have a homosexual orientation." (Emphasis ours). 5
Father Donald Cozzens, an author, psychologist, and Catholic seminary president says that there is such a high percentage of gay priests in the church that he is concerned that “the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession.” 5 In his book, "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," -- published in the year 2000 -- he estimates that 50% of Roman Catholic priests have a homosexual orientation.
A NBC report on chastity and the clergy found that "anywhere from 23 percent to 58 percent" of the Catholic clergy have a homosexual orientation. 7
Author and sociologist James G. Wolfe estimated that 48.5% of priests were gay.
Actual surveys: In the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply:
75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;
15% homosexual;
5% bisexual. 9
During 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay. 10
Conclusion: If we assume that all of the estimates are of equal validity, then about 33% of priests have a homosexual orientation -- about one in three.
However, as Father Donald Cozzens has written: "Beyond these estimates, of course, are priests who remain confused about their orientation and men who have so successfully denied their orientation, that in spite of predominately same-sex erotic fantasies, they insist that they are heterosexual."

http://www.religious...org/hom_rcc.htm

VALENTE: Last year, in a widely discussed book, Father Donald Cozzens, then rector of the Cleveland Seminary, wrote of the "growing perception that the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession."
Jerome Listecki, auxiliary bishop of Chicago, acknowledges that the priesthood may have a slightly disproportionate number of gay men -- perhaps more than 10 percent -- but he rejects studies, cited by Cozzens, that [say] as many as 50 percent of seminarians are homosexual.

http://www.pbs.org/w...31/feature.html

The high percentage of homosexuals in the priesthood is partly attributed by experts to the exodus of heterosexual priests since the 1960s, many of whom left to marry. Some experts also argue that a celibate priesthood acts as a "Catholic closet," attracting men who hope to keep their homosexual orientation under wraps.
In his widely discussed book "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," the Rev. Donald B. Cozzens, former rector of Cleveland Seminary, wrote of a growing perception "that the priesthood is, or is becoming, a gay profession." Cozzens cited surveys that found up to 50 percent of priests and seminarians were gay. Other surveys have found lower numbers.
"My research puts it more at 29 percent," said the Rev. Gerard McGlone, a Jesuit priest and psychology fellow at the Johns Hopkins University Medical School's Department of Psychiatry in Baltimore. McGlone said that in his survey of a random sample of 80 priests across the country, 29 percent said they were homosexual, 61 percent heterosexual and 9 percent bisexual.

http://www.glaad.org..._...&PHPSESSID=

Cardinal Roger Mahony has announced that the Church will pay out $660 million to more than 500 victims of sexual abuse by priests...There are anywhere from 8,000 to 22,000 homosexual priests (samo u USA, mozda se odnosi cak i samo na CAL)
http://www.americanv...07/07-17-07.asp

The Roman Catholic sex abuse cases
Reports came from the United States and Ireland. The John Jay Report[1] found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests. (samo onih prijavljenih prim.prev)***
http://en.wikipedia....sex_abuse_cases

AMERICAN MORNING WITH PAULA ZAHN
AMANDA RIPLEY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: You're right, you don't. There are no good numbers. I think, you know, there have been different surveys. None of them are perfect. They put the numbers between 15 percent and more than 50 percent. Actually, you know, many priests that we talked to would say a third to 50 percent. But it is anecdotal.

http://transcripts.c.../13/ltm.10.html

*** the FBI has estimated that only 1 percent to 10 percent of child sexual abuse cases are reported to the police
http://soc.enotes.co...-sexual-article

Drugim recima, ako celo selo voli belo, samo pop radi dop (malu decu, vozice ili lecenje nerotkinja). U sasvim dovoljnoj manjini (do 40%), da ne gresimo dusu za ovu vecinu sto sakriva zlocine manjine. dry.gif

Edited by faramir, 24 July 2007 - 15:07.


#98 HattoriHanzo

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 15:13

QUOTE(faramir @ 24 Jul 2007, 16:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Evo ti nekih podataka pa se utemeljuj do mile volje. rolleyes.gif
...
Drugim recima, ako celo selo voli belo, samo pop radi dop (malu decu, vozice ili lecenje nerotkinja). U sasvim dovoljnoj manjini (do 40%), da ne gresimo dusu za ovu vecinu sto sakriva zlocine manjine. dry.gif


a kakve sve to ima veze sa svestenstvom pravoslavne crkve?
huh.gif

#99 Sleepers

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 23:33

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 24 Jul 2007, 16:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
a kakve sve to ima veze sa svestenstvom pravoslavne crkve?
huh.gif


A zasto si se ti nasao pozvanim da branis (bilo cije) svestenstvo? Tim vise sto ovdje svi ocekuju neke odgovore, koje im ne mozes dati ti, ukoliko i sam ne spadas u (bilo cije) svestenstvo.

I uopce, ne vidim (ali zaista nigdje) da je Alef poštivao principe za koje se zalazes. Pa za koga se konkretno zalazes?

#100 faramir

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 03:34

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 24 Jul 2007, 16:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
a kakve sve to ima veze sa svestenstvom pravoslavne crkve?
huh.gif

Ko je pa rekao da se odnosi na njih? Trcis kao tele pred rudu.
Imas u citatima tacno koje istrazivanje je vrseno na kom uzorku. dry.gif
A taman si hteo sveucilisno skrenuti paznju na razliku u onim svestenicima koji praktikuju legalizovani seks sa zenkama u nas pravoslavaca? Ingeniozno van mog kalibra moram priznati.
Razlika je mozda bas u tolikom procentu, ali naravno kao svaki super genije shvatas da ti ostaje onaj deo svestenstva sto se ne seksa po kanonu, koji je zamasan i za njega mozemo pretpostaviti da su slicne statistike navedenim istrazivanjima.

Trazio si podatke zar ne? Izvoli citaj studioznije (onelinere slobodno mozes rabiti za zatucanje nekih drugih forumasa, ja se ne palim na takve kratke stupidnosti, ma koliko tebi bile orgazmicne). Imas navedeno barem 10/20 istrazivanja na tvoj personalni zahtev za utemeljenjem.
Oduzmi, mnozi, sabiraj i procentuj ostatak, ako te iskreno zanima koliko pravoslavaca naskace na decu i zigose sa zaracima mozes se potruditi i sam da nadjes neke podatke, istrazivanja ili analogije u skladu sa cinjenicama. Toliko si valjda pametan (neiskreno se nadam).

Edited by faramir, 25 July 2007 - 03:43.


#101 Zmitjkoe

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 20:21

QUOTE(faramir @ 24 Jul 2007, 16:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...in spite of predominately same-sex erotic fantasies, they insist that they are heterosexual."

laugh.gif Valjda nosexual jer se radi o katolickim zacelibatisanim svestenicima.

#102 HattoriHanzo

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 21:44

QUOTE(faramir @ 25 Jul 2007, 04:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A taman si hteo sveucilisno skrenuti paznju na razliku u onim svestenicima koji praktikuju legalizovani seks sa zenkama u nas pravoslavaca?


aha.
vidi se u startu da si prepametan za mene, pa jos kod tebe ne pale nikake fore...
unsure.gif
al ajd sta je tu je, ionako si me na nista napravio,
nem se sta izgubiti, pa bi se, ako dozvolis, odma okusao s poentom tvog bravuroznog pisanija...

QUOTE(faramir @ 25 Jul 2007, 04:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Razlika je mozda bas u tolikom procentu, ali naravno kao svaki super genije shvatas da ti ostaje onaj deo svestenstva sto se ne seksa po kanonu, koji je zamasan i za njega da su slicne statistike navedenim istrazivanjima.


znaci, procenat popova koji praktikuju 'legalizovani seks sa zenkama' ne znamo,
a samim tim ne mozemo utvrditi ni broj onih koji se 'ne seksa po kanonu' ili ne seksa uopste, tj ostatak,
pa iz svega toga sledi nedvosmislena pretpostavka da broj pravoslavnih pedofila mora biti pozamasan
posto postoje brojna istrazivanja seksualne izopacenosti katolickog svestenstva.
hm, zanimljivo...izvini ako nisam toliko pametan da ovo bolje shvatim...
dry.gifunsure.gif


QUOTE(faramir @ 25 Jul 2007, 04:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trazio si podatke zar ne? Izvoli citaj studioznije (onelinere slobodno mozes rabiti za zatucanje nekih drugih forumasa, ja se ne palim na takve kratke stupidnosti, ma koliko tebi bile orgazmicne). Imas navedeno barem 10/20 istrazivanja na tvoj personalni zahtev za utemeljenjem.
Oduzmi, mnozi, sabiraj i procentuj ostatak, ako te iskreno zanima koliko pravoslavaca naskace na decu i zigose sa zaracima mozes se potruditi i sam da nadjes neke podatke, istrazivanja ili analogije u skladu sa cinjenicama. Toliko si valjda pametan (neiskreno se nadam).


nisam, al ti vidim jesi, tako da ne sumnjam da ces me obradovati nekim domacim istrazivanjem.
ni kod mene ne pale neke fore...
smile.gif

Edited by HattoriHanzo, 25 July 2007 - 21:47.


#103 faramir

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 01:02

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 25 Jul 2007, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
aha.
vidi se u startu da si prepametan za mene, pa jos kod tebe ne pale nikake fore...
unsure.gif

Ne "nikake", vec ne pale ti tvoji onelineri wink.gif

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 25 Jul 2007, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
al ajd sta je tu je, ionako si me na nista napravio,
nem se sta izgubiti, pa bi se, ako dozvolis, odma okusao s poentom tvog bravuroznog pisanija...
znaci, procenat popova koji praktikuju 'legalizovani seks sa zenkama' ne znamo, a samim tim ne mozemo utvrditi ni broj onih koji se 'ne seksa po kanonu' ili ne seksa uopste, tj ostatak,

Mozes se potruditi da saznas ako te bas interesuje, ali stoji da imas one ozenjene isto tako kao sto stoji da imas i one neozenjene. wink.gif

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 25 Jul 2007, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
pa iz svega toga sledi nedvosmislena pretpostavka da broj pravoslavnih pedofila mora biti pozamasan
posto postoje brojna istrazivanja seksualne izopacenosti katolickog svestenstva.
hm, zanimljivo...izvini ako nisam toliko pametan da ovo bolje shvatim...
dry.gifunsure.gif

Ako cemo analogijom u onom nezenjenom delu je slican datim istrazivanjima, a na to se tacno i odnosila moja primedba (avaj samo da si pazljivije citao). rolleyes.gif
Ali posto je sporno ono 'pozamasan', to je stvar licnog ukusa. Nekom je mnogo 4.000 pedofila, a nekome i 200, kao 5, 10, ili 50% svestenstva, nebitno. Pogotovo ako ona vecina skriva njihove zlocine (toliko o zlocinackoj manjini i nezlocinackoj vecini). Svetlih primera ni nema, jer kada istupi neki svestenik da svedoci protiv pedofila taj biva raspopljen dok si rekao Pahomije, tako da dokazano ne postoje drugi svestenici do pedofila i njihovih saucesnika u SPC, zahvaljujuci bas toj i takvoj negativnoj selekciji.
Spoiler! --Click here to view--


Inace help za googlovanje ako ti je do proracunavanja (film gde ja tebi za tvoj ugao gledanja pribavljam argumente ipak neces gledati):
1. svestenici SPC iznad nekog ranga (protojereja?) imaju obavezu celibata
2. kao i zamonaseni svestenici

Obe kategorije u SPC su potvrdjene sto se tice prisutnosti pedofilije i otvorene za analogiju navedenim istrazivanjima, na primerima Pahomija (vladika) i cika Jove (monah).

Inace, zasto ima statistike i istrazivanja za katolicki kler u USA a nema za pravoslavni u SER?
Iz istog civilizacijskog razloga zasto u USA otplacuju 300 mil. $ odstete zrtvama a kod nas one budu proglasene delom "####skog lobija". dry.gif

QUOTE(HattoriHanzo @ 25 Jul 2007, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nisam, al ti vidim jesi, tako da ne sumnjam da ces me obradovati nekim domacim istrazivanjem.
ni kod mene ne pale neke fore...
smile.gif

Ti se palis na kurblu pa bi isto tako i druge da palis. Tesko laugh.gif

Edited by faramir, 26 July 2007 - 04:14.


#104 faramir

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 01:06

QUOTE(Zmitjkoe @ 25 Jul 2007, 21:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
laugh.gif Valjda nosexual jer se radi o katolickim zacelibatisanim svestenicima.

Pomirili se da nema takvih?