Scorsese is the executive director of the series and directed the first film.
"The Blues Have A Truth"
"I have always loved the blues," Scorsese told Jack Newfield in an interview for Parade Magazine (9/24/03). "They have a truth, an emotional truth -- the condition of being human. The blues are American and worldly at the same time, and the blues have a kinship with film. They are both part of a culture of storytelling."
When did he first hear the blues?
"Radio, 1958," Scorsese replied in his exact staccato exuberance. "I heard Lead Belly sing 'See See Rider' and went out and bought a Lead Belly album the same day."
Scorsese is revered as as a film preservationist, and he says he approaches the blues with the same impulse.
"It's the thrill of discovering the roots of an art form and being able to preserve it for the next generation," he explained.
"I listen to the blues all the the time," Scorsese continued. "I listen while I'm working. I listen in hotel rooms. I listen late at night. Muddy Waters, Son House and 'Dust My Broom' by Elmore James move me as much as opera or Beethoven. They are my inspiration. Music is my muse."
Scorsese, a longtime blues devotee, is the executive producer of the show, PBS' flagship fall program. The episodes — each directed by a different well-known filmmaker — are intended as personal, sometimes impressionistic, reflections on the blues.
"Feel Like Going Home," directed by Scorsese and written by Peter Guralnik, pays homage to the Delta blues though rare archival footage of Son House, Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker and new performances by Willie King, Taj Mahal, Otha Turner and Ali Farka Toure. Bluesman Corey Harris travels through Mississippi and West Africa, where he explores the roots of the music.
"The Soul of a Man," directed by Wim Wenders, explores the lives and music of Blind Willie Johnson, Skip James and J. B. Lenoir; the first two are examined via a surprisingly moving fictional film-within-a-film and rare archival footage. Original recordings alternate with contemporary covers by such artists as Bonnie Raitt, Lucinda Williams, Lou Reed, Cassandra Wilson and Los Lobos.
"The Road to Memphis," directed by Richard Pearce and written by Robert Gordon, features B.B. King, Bobby Rush, Rosco Gordon and Ike Turner, as well as historical footage of Howlin' Wolf and Rufus Thomas.
"Warming by the Devil's Fire," directed by Charles Burnett, is a fictional narrative about a young boy's encounter with his family in Mississippi in the 1950s, and intergenerational tensions between the heavenly strains of gospel and the devilish moans of the blues.
"Godfathers & Sons," directed by Marc Levin, finds Marshall Chess, son of Leonard Chess and heir to the Chess Records legacy, and hip-hop legend Chuck D of Public Enemy, touring Chicago and its grand blues history as they produce an album bringing together veteran blues players and contemporary hip-hop stars.
"Red White & Blues," directed by Mike Figgis, revisits the music of the early '60s British Invasion that reintroduced the American blues sound that had been pretty much ignored at home. Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Van Morrison and Tom Jones perform and talk about inspirations such as Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters and Freddie King.
"Piano Blues," directed by Clint Eastwood, explores his lifelong passion for piano blues.
---
Also available:
Martin Scorsese Presents the Blues: A Musical Journey
Edited by Peter Guralnick and Robert Santelli: this is the companion book to the PBS series. The result is a unique and timeless celebration of the blues, from writers and artists as esteemed and revered as the music that moved them. In these pages one not only reads about the blues, one hears them, feels them, lives them. MARTIN SCORSESE PRESENTS THE BLUES is more than a timeless collection of great writing to be savored and shared: it is an unforgettable initiation into the very essence of American music and culture. Published: 13 September 2003 by Amisted Press
Martin Scorsese Presents the Blues
Started by
Indy
, Jul 10 2005 11:08
14 replies to this topic
#2
Indy
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Posted 10 July 2005 - 11:14
The Soul of a Man (part four of 'The Blues') 2003
Written and directed by: Wim Wenders
In "The Soul of A Man," director Wim Wenders looks at the dramatic tension in the blues between the sacred and the profane by exploring the music and lives of three of his favorite blues artists: Skip James, Blind Willie Johnson and J. B. Lenoir. Part history, part personal pilgrimage, the film tells the story of these lives in music through an extended fictional film sequence (recreations of '20s and '30s events - shot in silent-film, hand-crank style), rare archival footage, present-day documentary scenes and covers of their songs by contemporary musicians such as Shemekia Copeland, Alvin Youngblood Hart, Garland Jeffreys, Chris Thomas King, Cassandra Wilson, Nick Cave, Los Lobos, Eagle Eye Cherry, Vernon Reid, James "Blood" Ulmer, Lou Reed, Bonnie Raitt, Marc Ribot, The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion, Lucinda Williams and T-Bone Burnett.
Says Wenders: "These songs meant the world to me. I felt there was more truth in them than in any book I had read about America, or in any movie I had ever seen. I've tried to describe, more like a poem than in a 'documentary,' what moved me so much in their songs and voices."
The documentary is the first in a seven-part series called "The Blues," which features films by Mike Figgis, Charles Burnett, Clint Eastwood, Marc Levin, Richard Pearce and Martin Scorsese (who also executive produced the series) and will air on TV in the U.S. this fall.
(Indie Wire; Cannes Film Festival site)
The Soul of a Man at the Cannes Film Festival
"Wenders has filmed the Blues in The Soul of Man, a documentary movie with a personal touch with tunes and lyrics born of the 1930s Depression years along the Mississippi.
The rasping voice of Blind Willie Johnson, who earned his living on street corners and sang the title song, was sent into space on the Voyager in 1977 as part of the CD recording The Sounds of Earth, which had been placed onboard for posterity and/or examination by extra-terrestrial beings.
With the voice of Laurence Fishburne - Morpheus in the Matrix films - narrating, the film recounts the lives and times of the three using both old recordings and archive footage as well as fictional scenes and covers of their songs by contemporary musicians such as Nick Cave, Lou Reed and Beck.
Because there was no archive footage in existence of either Blind Willie Johnson or Skip James, Wenders used actors to play their roles but shot the scenes with an old 1920s black-and-white camera that lends realism, later using digital technology to fit the music to the pictures.
"I had to use old techniques but new technology," Wenders said at Cannes. "This would have been impossible in the past."
In the film, Wenders recounts that he first heard the name JB Lenoir when John Mayall in the late 1960s sang The death of JB Lenoir, a song that impacted a generation at the time.
"I wanted to know who this person was," Wenders said, who crossed oceans to find information on Lenoir.
Music has long been a mother of cinematic invention in Wenders' career. The title of his debut 1971 Summer In The City was from a hit by Lovin' Spoonful and The Million Dollar Hotel was inspired by Bono of U2."
Written and directed by: Wim Wenders
In "The Soul of A Man," director Wim Wenders looks at the dramatic tension in the blues between the sacred and the profane by exploring the music and lives of three of his favorite blues artists: Skip James, Blind Willie Johnson and J. B. Lenoir. Part history, part personal pilgrimage, the film tells the story of these lives in music through an extended fictional film sequence (recreations of '20s and '30s events - shot in silent-film, hand-crank style), rare archival footage, present-day documentary scenes and covers of their songs by contemporary musicians such as Shemekia Copeland, Alvin Youngblood Hart, Garland Jeffreys, Chris Thomas King, Cassandra Wilson, Nick Cave, Los Lobos, Eagle Eye Cherry, Vernon Reid, James "Blood" Ulmer, Lou Reed, Bonnie Raitt, Marc Ribot, The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion, Lucinda Williams and T-Bone Burnett.
Says Wenders: "These songs meant the world to me. I felt there was more truth in them than in any book I had read about America, or in any movie I had ever seen. I've tried to describe, more like a poem than in a 'documentary,' what moved me so much in their songs and voices."
The documentary is the first in a seven-part series called "The Blues," which features films by Mike Figgis, Charles Burnett, Clint Eastwood, Marc Levin, Richard Pearce and Martin Scorsese (who also executive produced the series) and will air on TV in the U.S. this fall.
(Indie Wire; Cannes Film Festival site)
The Soul of a Man at the Cannes Film Festival
"Wenders has filmed the Blues in The Soul of Man, a documentary movie with a personal touch with tunes and lyrics born of the 1930s Depression years along the Mississippi.
The rasping voice of Blind Willie Johnson, who earned his living on street corners and sang the title song, was sent into space on the Voyager in 1977 as part of the CD recording The Sounds of Earth, which had been placed onboard for posterity and/or examination by extra-terrestrial beings.
With the voice of Laurence Fishburne - Morpheus in the Matrix films - narrating, the film recounts the lives and times of the three using both old recordings and archive footage as well as fictional scenes and covers of their songs by contemporary musicians such as Nick Cave, Lou Reed and Beck.
Because there was no archive footage in existence of either Blind Willie Johnson or Skip James, Wenders used actors to play their roles but shot the scenes with an old 1920s black-and-white camera that lends realism, later using digital technology to fit the music to the pictures.
"I had to use old techniques but new technology," Wenders said at Cannes. "This would have been impossible in the past."
In the film, Wenders recounts that he first heard the name JB Lenoir when John Mayall in the late 1960s sang The death of JB Lenoir, a song that impacted a generation at the time.
"I wanted to know who this person was," Wenders said, who crossed oceans to find information on Lenoir.
Music has long been a mother of cinematic invention in Wenders' career. The title of his debut 1971 Summer In The City was from a hit by Lovin' Spoonful and The Million Dollar Hotel was inspired by Bono of U2."
#3
Indy
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Posted 10 July 2005 - 12:12
The soul of a man - pesme i komentari
1) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - Dark was the night
Ova pesma je otisla na sondi Pionir u duboki svemir
2) Marc Ribot - Dark was the night
3) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - Trouble will soon be over
Njegova gitara je bila u otvorenom D- shtimu
4) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - John the Revelator
Nehemiah "Skip" James pozvan je da snima za Paramount u Graftonu (WI). Data mu je 12-zicana gitara "Stella" sa kojom je snimio 18 pesama, plus 8 svirajuci klavir.
5) Skip James 1931 - Hard Time Killing Floor Blues
6) Lucinda Williams - Hard Time Killing Floor Blues
7) Skip James 1931 - Illinois Blues
8) Alvin Youngblood Hart - Illinois Blues
9) Bonnie Raitt - Devil got my woman
Bonnie svira akusticnu gitaru marke Guild
10) The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion - Devil got my woman
Elektrificirana verzija
11) Skip James 1931 - Cherry Bell Blues
12) Beck - I'm so glad (by Skip James)
Beck svira 12-zicanu gitaru i usnu harmoniku
13) Skip James 1931 - I'm so glad
"I'm so glad" bio je veliki hit za Cream 1968
14) Skip James 1931 - .22-20 Blues
Skip ovde svira klavir
15) Lou Reed - Look down the road (by Skip James)
Lou ima sjajnog gitaristu Michael-a na stratocasteru
16) Skip James 1931 - Cypres Grove Blues
17) Skip James 1931 - He is a mighty good leader
18) John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers - The death of J.B. Lenoir
Ovde ide odlomak iz Wendersovog filma "Summer in the city"
Predstavljen par koji je snimao pokojnog JB Lenoira, Steve & Ronnog Seaberg, snimljeni u Atlanti 2002.
19) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - I feel so good
20) Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - I feel so good
21) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - I've been down so long
22) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - Everything I do
JB svira Gretsch Synchromatic Archtop gitaru
23) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - I want to go
24) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - Round and Round
25) Bonnie Raitt - Round and round
26) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - Voodoo music
27) Los Lobos - Voodoo music
28) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - God's Word
29) Shemekia Copeland - Release me, Devil (J.B. Lenoir)
30) T. Bone Walker - Don't you dog your woman (by J.B. Lenoir)
31) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - Slow down
32) Casandra Wilson - Slow down
Skip James ponovo otkriven u Tunaka, MI i doveden na Newport Festival 1964. Profesionalno nije nastupao od 1931.
Ponovo svira 1965, nastupa sa Son House-om i Bukka White-om.
33) Skip James 1965 - Devil Got my Woman
34) Skip James 1965 - Cherry ball blues
35) Skip James 1965 - Worried blues
Skip je veoma bolestan u ovo vreme.
36) The Cream 1968 - I'm so glad (by Skip James)
37) Garland Jeffreys - Washington D.C. Hospital Center Blues (by Skip James)
38) Cassandra Wilson - Vietnam Blues (by J.B. Lenoir)
Njen akusticni gitarista Martin Sewell je fenomenalan
39) Eagle Eye Cherry, Vernon Reid, David Barnes and James 'Blood' Ulmer - Down in Mississippi (by J.B. Lenoir)
Blood svira poluakusticni single-cut Gibson. Vernon svira elektricni sitar.
40) J.B. Lenoir 1966 - Down in Mississippi
41) J.B. Lenoir 1966 - Alabama blues
42) J.B. Lenoir 1966 - The whale has swallowed me
Slapuje i ljubi svoj akusticni Gibson - ima fenomenalan idiosinkraticki osecaj za tajming.
J.B. umire 1966. posle saobracajne nesrece u Champagne, IL.
43) Skip James 1967 - Crow Jane
Skip umire 1967. u Filadelfiji.
44) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - "The soul of a man"
Won't somebody tell me, answer if you can!
Want somebody tell me, what is the soul of a man
I'm going to ask the question, answer if you can
If anybody here can tell me, what is the soul of a man?
I've traveled in different countries, I've traveled foreign lands
I've found nobody to tell me, what is the soul of a man
I saw a crowd stand talking, I came up right on time
Were hearing the doctor and the lawyer, say a man ain't nothing but his mind
I read the bible often, I tries to read it right
As far as I can understand, a man is more than his mind
When Christ stood in the temple, the people stood amazed
Was showing the doctors and the lawyers, how to raise a body from the grave
45) Lou Reed - Two White Horses Standing In Line (by Jack O'Diamond)
1) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - Dark was the night
Ova pesma je otisla na sondi Pionir u duboki svemir
2) Marc Ribot - Dark was the night
3) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - Trouble will soon be over
Njegova gitara je bila u otvorenom D- shtimu
4) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - John the Revelator
Nehemiah "Skip" James pozvan je da snima za Paramount u Graftonu (WI). Data mu je 12-zicana gitara "Stella" sa kojom je snimio 18 pesama, plus 8 svirajuci klavir.
5) Skip James 1931 - Hard Time Killing Floor Blues
6) Lucinda Williams - Hard Time Killing Floor Blues
7) Skip James 1931 - Illinois Blues
8) Alvin Youngblood Hart - Illinois Blues
9) Bonnie Raitt - Devil got my woman
Bonnie svira akusticnu gitaru marke Guild
10) The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion - Devil got my woman
Elektrificirana verzija
11) Skip James 1931 - Cherry Bell Blues
12) Beck - I'm so glad (by Skip James)
Beck svira 12-zicanu gitaru i usnu harmoniku
13) Skip James 1931 - I'm so glad
"I'm so glad" bio je veliki hit za Cream 1968
14) Skip James 1931 - .22-20 Blues
Skip ovde svira klavir
15) Lou Reed - Look down the road (by Skip James)
Lou ima sjajnog gitaristu Michael-a na stratocasteru
16) Skip James 1931 - Cypres Grove Blues
17) Skip James 1931 - He is a mighty good leader
18) John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers - The death of J.B. Lenoir
Ovde ide odlomak iz Wendersovog filma "Summer in the city"
Predstavljen par koji je snimao pokojnog JB Lenoira, Steve & Ronnog Seaberg, snimljeni u Atlanti 2002.
19) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - I feel so good
20) Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - I feel so good
21) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - I've been down so long
22) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - Everything I do
JB svira Gretsch Synchromatic Archtop gitaru
23) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - I want to go
24) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - Round and Round
25) Bonnie Raitt - Round and round
26) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - Voodoo music
27) Los Lobos - Voodoo music
28) J.B. Lenoir 1964 - God's Word
29) Shemekia Copeland - Release me, Devil (J.B. Lenoir)
30) T. Bone Walker - Don't you dog your woman (by J.B. Lenoir)
31) J.B. Lenoir 1965 - Slow down
32) Casandra Wilson - Slow down
Skip James ponovo otkriven u Tunaka, MI i doveden na Newport Festival 1964. Profesionalno nije nastupao od 1931.
Ponovo svira 1965, nastupa sa Son House-om i Bukka White-om.
33) Skip James 1965 - Devil Got my Woman
34) Skip James 1965 - Cherry ball blues
35) Skip James 1965 - Worried blues
Skip je veoma bolestan u ovo vreme.
36) The Cream 1968 - I'm so glad (by Skip James)
37) Garland Jeffreys - Washington D.C. Hospital Center Blues (by Skip James)
38) Cassandra Wilson - Vietnam Blues (by J.B. Lenoir)
Njen akusticni gitarista Martin Sewell je fenomenalan
39) Eagle Eye Cherry, Vernon Reid, David Barnes and James 'Blood' Ulmer - Down in Mississippi (by J.B. Lenoir)
Blood svira poluakusticni single-cut Gibson. Vernon svira elektricni sitar.
40) J.B. Lenoir 1966 - Down in Mississippi
41) J.B. Lenoir 1966 - Alabama blues
42) J.B. Lenoir 1966 - The whale has swallowed me
Slapuje i ljubi svoj akusticni Gibson - ima fenomenalan idiosinkraticki osecaj za tajming.
J.B. umire 1966. posle saobracajne nesrece u Champagne, IL.
43) Skip James 1967 - Crow Jane
Skip umire 1967. u Filadelfiji.
44) Blind Willie Johnson 1927 - "The soul of a man"
Won't somebody tell me, answer if you can!
Want somebody tell me, what is the soul of a man
I'm going to ask the question, answer if you can
If anybody here can tell me, what is the soul of a man?
I've traveled in different countries, I've traveled foreign lands
I've found nobody to tell me, what is the soul of a man
I saw a crowd stand talking, I came up right on time
Were hearing the doctor and the lawyer, say a man ain't nothing but his mind
I read the bible often, I tries to read it right
As far as I can understand, a man is more than his mind
When Christ stood in the temple, the people stood amazed
Was showing the doctors and the lawyers, how to raise a body from the grave
45) Lou Reed - Two White Horses Standing In Line (by Jack O'Diamond)
#4
Indy
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Posted 10 July 2005 - 13:31
Martin Scorsese Presents The Blues - A Musical Journey (2003)
$125.98
@ http://www.amazon.co...d=1W4UTC2DR71U7
#5
sotto voce
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Posted 10 July 2005 - 15:00
blues se zove cips ofarban mirisom i ukusom blue tomatoa/patlidzanoa* [ juce otkrila, uvoz iz amerike preko belgije ]
FENOMENALNO
izgleda kao iscepkan list upijajuce hartije [prezasicene] a takav mu je i ukus -
e : imam samo jednu kasetu, tojst cd koji nikada ne slusam, ali sam zadovoljna da ga imam.
probacu kako ide sa cipsom u bluzu
* eat global, talk local
FENOMENALNO
izgleda kao iscepkan list upijajuce hartije [prezasicene] a takav mu je i ukus - e : imam samo jednu kasetu, tojst cd koji nikada ne slusam, ali sam zadovoljna da ga imam.
probacu kako ide sa cipsom u bluzu* eat global, talk local
Edited by sotto voce, 10 July 2005 - 15:21.
#6
Indy
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Posted 10 July 2005 - 15:10
To bi bio patlidzan, nasim lepim turcizmom...
A sad bi mogla nesto o Van Morissonu, znam da ga volis. Chips se podrazumeva.
A sad bi mogla nesto o Van Morissonu, znam da ga volis. Chips se podrazumeva.
#7
Indy
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Posted 11 July 2005 - 02:03
Ne znam da li ti imas neke veze sa devojkom kaja-kaja:e : imam samo jednu kasetu, tojst cd koji nikada ne slusam, ali sam zadovoljna da ga imam.
Arhiva: Kultura i život -> Muzika
Preporucite muziku
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher (1986)
Van Morrison
Those were the days...
A sad
Hard times... blues!
#8
Hrundi V. Bakshi
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Posted 11 July 2005 - 12:33
ili $0.00 na edk2000
Martin Scorsese Presents The Blues - A Musical Journey (2003)
$125.98
@ http://www.amazon.co...d=1W4UTC2DR71U7
#9
sotto voce
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Posted 13 July 2005 - 19:56
... tojst noci. iz anarchique&production se secam samo da sam shushu-u dodelila orden a on ga je pojeoThose were the days...
[ ljuuuudiiiii, pojeo je orden, orden je pojeo ]eeeedit : eee nema bluesa bez motike
[ inace inddddy nista ne razumem ovu cuftu od tvog posta. u svoju odbranu [od blues-a] mogu da kazem samo da sam tada 'preporucite muziku' verovatno dozivljavala kao 'now playing' ]
dedit : u sledecem postu dedeinde predvidjaju se akordi za 'bluz za moju bivsu dragu' u interpretaciji tome zdravkovica. kvotuj-ko-stigne.
#10
Indy
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Posted 14 July 2005 - 00:00
Odlicna ideja. Toma je najveci srpski bluzer. Samo bolje da preradim "Dazed and Confused" od Zeppelina, dugmici su potroseni... a interpretaciju Tominu zamislite.u sledecem postu dedeinde predvidjaju se akordi za 'bluz za moju bivsu dragu' u interpretaciji tome zdravkovica
"Lud Zbunjenog" bluz od LZ
Lud zbunjenog tako dugo, nije normalno
Trazio zenu, natrch'o na tebe
Mnogi blebecu, al' malo njih zna
Dotak'o sam dno zivota kroz tebe ja
...
Na ostatku radim.
#11
sotto voce
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Posted 15 July 2005 - 18:23
sta je inddddy a sta refleksijaOdlicna ideja. Toma je najveci srpski bluzer. Samo bolje da preradim "Dazed and Confused" od Zeppelina, dugmici su potroseni... a interpretaciju Tominu zamislite.
"Lud Zbunjenog" bluz od LZ
Lud zbunjenog tako dugo, nije normalno
Trazio zenu, natrch'o na tebe
Mnogi blebecu, al' malo njih zna
Dotak'o sam dno zivota kroz tebe ja
...
Na ostatku radim.
#13
sotto voce
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Posted 16 July 2005 - 16:51
tr'o deda lan da
edit : suhi bluz bez odjeka
[ edited by "tj"
. ]
edit : suhi bluz bez odjeka
[ edited by "tj"
. ]
Edited by sotto voce, 16 July 2005 - 17:18.
#14
Indy
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Posted 16 July 2005 - 17:01
Razgovoru nikad kraja...
Nego, epizoda "The Road to Memphis" [directed by Richard Pearce and written by Robert Gordon, features B.B. King, Bobby Rush, Rosco Gordon and Ike Turner, as well as historical footage of Howlin' Wolf and Rufus Thomas] nije ni izbliza dobra kao "The Soul of A Man". Ipak je Wenders tata.
Moze biti od nekog interesa za ljubitelje BB Kinga.
Nego, epizoda "The Road to Memphis" [directed by Richard Pearce and written by Robert Gordon, features B.B. King, Bobby Rush, Rosco Gordon and Ike Turner, as well as historical footage of Howlin' Wolf and Rufus Thomas] nije ni izbliza dobra kao "The Soul of A Man". Ipak je Wenders tata.
Moze biti od nekog interesa za ljubitelje BB Kinga.
#15
Indy
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Posted 31 July 2005 - 06:53
Uz petu epizodu, intervju sa rediteljem Marc Levinom.
------------------
http://www.abc.net.a...es/s1105962.htm
Godfathers And Sons: Chatting With Marc Levin
by Chris Winter
Chuck D, from Public Enemy
There's a quote by Willie Dixon about the blues; He says "The Blues are the roots; everything else is the fruits".
There's one film from the series which explores that idea directly, but from an angle which is logical but often overlooked. In a lot of ways hip-hop music is the most direct descendant of the blues - it's a black form (although whites like Eminem have been able to popularise it; remember the Stones anyone?), and hip hop tells stories - a lot of the time about what it's like to be down in a big country like America.
The film by Marc Levin called Godfathers And Sons is a fly-on-the-wall documentry where the camera follows Public Enemy's Chuck D and Marshall Chess (son of label owner Leonard Chess) as the pair go to Chicago to unite hip hop with the blues.
Chris Winter: Marc, welcome to the ABC. Welcome to DIG, which is the name of our online area where this is going to be heard. Just to kick off, a huge project, this PBS blues thing. How did you get involved?
Marc Levin: Well, I was there at the creation, because I've a good buddy, Raphael who's worked for Martin Scorsese for many years. And I brought him down here and he kind of hooked Alex Gibney, who's a partner of mine also as a series producer, up with Marty's company. Because I had heard that Marty was trying to do something on the blues and was having some trouble raising money for a TV series and Alex had done a number of TV series that I'd worked on. So I was there right at the inception and the whole thing was run out of my studio here in Manhattan.
CW: What, the whole series?
ML: The whole series, yes. I was one of the few directors that got to see everything, 'cause dubs were being made and cuts coming through, et cetera. So it was an interesting-you know, I got to see what everybody else was doing, which was fascinating.
CW: Is there anything special, Marc, about the timing-before we go on to the details-about the timing of this project, why now in particular, or is it something that's been in Martin Scorsese's mind for a long time?
ML: I think Marty and Charles Burnett had been trying for a few years to do something on the blues. Obviously Marty has been into the music, as all the directors have, but I think the success of the jazz series that Ken Burns had done, and just kind of the fortune of the right people coming together at the right time. I think all of those made it happen. I mean, it was long overdue.
CW: Yes, certainly. It occurs to me that there might be some-or there seems to be from this distance-a particular interest in black music at the moment in America amongst young people in particular. Is that the case, or am I imagining it?
ML: Well, if you consider hip-hop black music-which it is-rap, yeah. It's the youth culture, not only of America but of the world. Now part of the hip-hop culture is multicultural, you know, black, white, Latino, Asian, But certainly a whole new generation has created a new sound and my film was trying to find a connection between the blues of the '50s with today's sound. But yeah, the rap music and the hip-hop culture started right here-I'm looking out the window-started right up in Queens and the Bronx.
So yeah, that urban culture has become the youth culture of the world. What's interesting, though, is that many people, many young people that are part of that culture and love the music-contemporary music, rap music, hip-hop music, R&B-are not that aware of the roots of all of popular music. And that was why I think this series, it was a good time for it to come out; and why someone like Chuck D was a great character to have as part of it.
CW: He makes a very strong point of that, in fact, doesn't he, of bringing the younger people on board.
ML: He's an evangelist for kind of understanding your own cultural roots and your own history. I have to admit, I posed the question of what I was interested in, 'cause the music of Chicago, of Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Little Walter, Bo Diddley, Etta James, Koko Taylor-that sound, the Chess sound, is what blew my mind as a young teenager.
I was a teenager when I first heard in 1965 the Paul Butterfield album, the first one, which was really the first inter-racial band I ever heard, also. Black and whites playing together. And the first song on that record was 'Born in Chicago' and it kind of got me looking into the whole Chicago sound and then I discovered Muddy, Howlin' and all this and I realised, 'My God...' the Rolling Stones, the Beetles, Eric Clapton-everybody's covering Chess music here. And so it led me to the authentic sound, which really was the beginning of me just developing an independent kind of sensibility that wasn't just the mass consumer market top ten.
So today you've got kids discovering new music all the time, but to connect them that this is a process that has been happening-was really what the idea for Godfathers and Sons, and even the title-there was an album in '68 called Fathers and Sons, which Marshall Chess produced and that was Muddy Waters and Otis Spann the keyboard player with Paul Butterfield, Sam Lay on drums and Mike Bloomfield on guitar. So the rockers were kind of the sons and the fathers were the blues greats. And so I wanted to take it one more generation. Today's music, today's youth; what is their connection with their grandfathers that, using more of the street vernacular, the godfathers? So that's Godfathers and Sons.
CW: Marc before we get in to the film itself and the detail of now-just going back to Chess: why Chess, why was Chess so important?
ML: Well, because that sound, those names I just-in five or six years they made music that still reverberates around the world. They captured a moment. It was one of those rare, magical things where the black migrants from the South after World War Two had come to Chicago and all of a sudden the country blues was amplified and became urban and then became electric and became a whole new sound in Chicago.
And then you had these Jewish immigrants coming from Eastern Europe and they kind of crashed together in the south side of Chicago, living next to each other. And out of it the musical genius and talent of the African Americans and some of the business acumen of like the Chess family produced this indie label and this sound that has left an indelible mark. It did for me, just personally. It was kind of like ripping the veil off of sexuality and just a kind of raw reality. And obviously it had a profound effect on the rockers of our generation, and now maybe a new generation is going to discover that sound-just like a lot of hip-hop artists have gone back to soul music and funk music in the '70s; take one more step back. So it was a rare moment, and you had these giant talents.
CW: Was it an accident that Leonard Chess was the one who recorded all this-could it have been someone else?
ML: I think it's part-all of these things are part timing, which is destiny or fate; and part the individual talent and dedication of Muddy Waters; obviously a unique talent. It was the relationship between Muddy and Leonard which was unique. There's no doubt that that was an unusual collaboration and real partnership.
Obviously there've been people who have criticised not only the Chess family but all the record labels, you know, in exploiting black talent, and there's no doubt that happened. And still, Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry still don't take kindly to the Chess family. But there was a genuine respect and love, really, between Leonard and Muddy, and that was the foundation that that company was built on, and so something special did happen that did depend on those individuals, but it was a time, also, like you're saying-you know, look what happened with Elvis down in Memphis-you know, there were different places. Something was happening after the War: an energy and a new sound emerging that really changed the face of popular culture.
CW: Marc, just coming back to the Waters-Chess relationship; what is it about blacks and Jews? There's that great line in the film when you're talking about saving Maxwell Street and this guy comes up and says, 'Blacks plus Jews equals the Blues.'
ML: Well that was-you know, Blues and the Jews was the secret working title. I'm a Jewish American and I've done these three indie hip-hop films: Slam, White Boys and Brooklyn Babylon; and I've wondered about it myself. In fact the last of those films, Brooklyn Babylon is a kind of meditation on what is the relationship, going all the way back to the Song of Songs and the Song of Solomon and kind of the Rastafarian take and the Jewish orthodox take.
I think the key here, though, was that you had outsiders that both came in new to the great city of Chicago and you had the migrants that were coming from the South, which was a whole other country, really, into Chicago; and you had immigrants, not all of them Jewish; there were a lot of immigrants coming from Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean-and they were the outsiders. And they lived next to each other and they had the same ambitions, really, which was to become American, to become - to 'make it', to be part of it.
And somehow their energies... you know, there are historic elements of the Jewish story and of slavery and the Jewish exodus, of black culture, especially African-American culture, really Christian African-American culture is always related to that story, the Exodus story, go down Moses... But I think it was really the time that you really had this struggle to... and after World War Two a door opened in America. And who was going to get in. There was the door opening on racial opportunity, there was a door opening where Jews had been locked out before, that was opening, where other immigrants... So there was a huge, just karmic push in and people who saw that they could work together and had some common sympathies joined forces to get in that door.
CW: It sounds to me, Marc-a few years around about the time of Slam, one of your interviewers; possibly not critics but at least someone you were talking to, suggested (and I think these are your words) 'How come a middle-aged white guy from the sixties is making all these films about young black culture?' It sounds to me you might be a bit closer to an answer.
ML: Look, that's my search, I never planned it that way, and I sometimes do just kind of sit back and wonder. But it's fate, and it wasn't premeditated; but you know, when I go back, even when you're talking about the Paul Butterfield album - you know, the idea of blacks and whites - not just blacks and Jews-but blacks and whites meeting; to me, in my life, as a young kid, and I came of age in the sixties: the anti-war movement, the civil rights movement, the birth of rock and roll - all of that, and there was a mixing of cultures. And to me, that opened me up, and it opened my friends up. And that was something that just changed the way I looked at life and myself.
And then if you kind of examine the history of popular culture, you start to see that wherever these meetings of the different outsider cultures happen; the safe houses, the bohemian clubs, the underground scenes; whether it was jazz, whether it was blues, whether it was back in vaudeville - you realised that those were the avatars. That's where the new shit kind of was created. That's where the alchemy happened.
That's the magic, that's the great - in other words, the wound in American culture and the American psyche is of course race. We fought a civil war over it, we're still struggling with it. But the other side of that is that there were always places where black and white would meet. Sometimes clandestinely, covertly, evading the officials. But it was out of that that something unique happened. So that's something that I feel lucky that I touched in my own way. But if you examine American culture I think you see that's a through-line.
CW: It's interesting, I was thinking about how things remain the same in many respects. One of the people writing about you remarked that younger white Americans now believe that rap was invented by Eminem, and are completely unaware of what went before. And exactly the same happened in the period you're talking about. I grew up then too, and we all thought it was the Rolling Stones or, pick another white artist, who'd invented it all, and little did we know...
ML: It's true, it's true... look, I admit that, and the point is not to feel guilt-tripped about it, it's to be open to learn how it really happened. And there are kids who probably think Eminem invented rap, but the challenge is, are they going to, as they grow and as they listen, are they going to realise how this thing really started? As Chuck D jokes in the film, there are people who don't even remember who Public Enemy was, you know, that's like old school.
So it's how to make - look, the thing about this film that I think in the end really was a surprise for me, and packed an emotional kind of wallop that none of us expected, was that Marshall's relationship with his father was obviously strained. His father was a workaholic and Marshall was pretty up-front about talking about how he always longed to be close to his father.
And in a way, that longing, and kind of the emotion of it, is an underpinning, in that all of us need to be connected to our roots in some way. We can't become where we're going and we can't fully realise our potential unless we have some connection with how we got here. And in our culture especially, I don't know how it is in Australia, but we are so present and future oriented that the past is, you know, thirty days ago. And not that you need history lessons - I think, or educational seminars - but I think that one of the things that was so unique about this series is because seven directors were allowed to pursue their own passion and cover the whole arc of the story of the blues from Africa to the Delta on up the Mississippi to Chicago, all the way over to Europe and back-so that at least the arc was covered but each director was allowed to find their own passion.
And that makes it-I've never seen a series like that. It's very unique. The disadvantage might be, okay, it's not encyclopaedic, but the advantage is it's alive. It's full of a passion. And it's not just a history lesson. You feel this is reverberating right now, right here. And that's, I think, a very valuable thing.
CW: Did Scorsese influence you at all in how you approached your story, or the story you chose; or did he leave that entirely to all of you to work out for yourselves?
ML: I think he was pretty - his comments were more, when he saw stuff; what he loved, what he wasn't clear about - were more notes. It wasn't as much the shaping of the passion. He pretty much gave us all licence to find your passion, find your way in. It was more to give us feedback on how it was reading, what was working, what wasn't working; that kind of stuff.
CW: And for you it finally came together when Chuck D sent an email to Marshall Chess and he got on to you and suddenly there was the story.
ML: That's true. And it's one of the things about documentaries that is so exciting. And there's really nothing like that. It's accidents; it's fate.
In other words, I knew in my head areas I wanted to explore, but how are you going to do it, and how are you going to do it in an interesting and kind of original way? And out of the blue, it's true that Chuck D had read that book Spinning Blues Into Gold on the Chess family and he was moved by it.
And he just wrote a note to Marshall. He didn't know Marshall, but he knew who Marshall was and he wrote him a note, saying how that book had influenced him and how he had heard a rumour that Marshall was doing something on trying to connect blues guys and hip-hop guys and he was interested, and reaching out.
And that was it. I saw that - I was, it was like, 'Oh my goodness, I couldn't ask for more. Here we go, the story begins.' And, there was a genuine chemistry between Marshall and Chuck. That was real, that was not staged. They had their arguments and they were pretty up-front with each other, but I think they really did like each other.
CW: It's ironic in a way that-going back to Chuck D's roots-that he nominates an album which at the time in the sixties was not very well received, at least by the critics; The Electric Mud album.
ML: Oh, that is a crack-up. That he - and I want you to know, when some of the blues purists heard rumour of what was kind of percolating, that Marshall and Chuck had hooked up and then that Chuck wanted to find the people, some of the musicians that had done Electric Mud - 'cause that's the album that got him into Muddy Waters - they were apoplectic. They were like, there were emails to headquarters here, and Alex, the series producer, he was getting it from all sides: 'That's the worst album that's ever been made-what, are you guys out of your mind?'
So that was risky, but that was their call, not mine. And I went along, and certainly the musicians who were part of Electric Mud were an extraordinary group of guys. Sometimes people tell you, especially doing a film project like this, that musicians are great to get to perform, but don't interview them or talk to them, because sometimes they don't make too much sense. And these guys certainly disproved that notion: eloquent, articulate characters.
CW: That was a fascinating session that you depict in the film. I was just thinking of some of the side chat, the criticism that Electric Mud attracted. In what, 35 years, it obviously still rankles with some of those guys.
ML: Absolutely.
CW: How did that session go, Marc, in the end. I notice that there was no result of it on the CDs that were released from the series.
ML: It's on the CD of Godfathers and Sons, yes. There are so many CDs associated with this series; there's like, I think, 24 of them. But there is a CD for each film, you know, a soundtrack for each film. So the soundtrack for Godfathers and Sons, the second-to-last song, is the 'ElectriK Mud Katz' reunion.
For me, that was just-I've got to confess, I probably fantasised about being a musician when I was younger, because I always saw music as the purest form of kind of marrying discipline and practice and knowledge with spontaneity, improvisation-and the way it affected an audience. So it was a model, and in many ways I think that I've always tried to make movies in my own way, and certainly Slam was an example, kind of using music as a model. Because making movies can be very hierarchical, very military, very corporate. And sometimes you almost are envious of musicians who can just get together and make something magic happen. So for me to be in the studio with these guys when it was happening, this was a high point for me; just in terms of-I felt like a little kid again.
CW: Well certainly the impression one gets from the film is that Chuck D and Common and Marshall himself of course, and I'm guessing you too, were overwhelmed, almost, by working in the company of Phil Upchurch, et cetera, et cetera. How did they all feel about people like Chuck D and Common - that remarkable scene where they're kind of picking away at their guitars and in the background is the scratch DJ and so on going on - what did they think of all that?
ML: They thought, you know, it's about time that you hip-hop kids, you rappers, woke up and realised we're your godfathers. We want to be part of the family. We don't want to be locked out in the senior centre and told, you know, there's a new music now that's got nothing to do with what came before. And of course with Common, it was crazy, because it ended up that they kind of knew people and had common friends and relatives, because Common is from the south side of Chicago so that was kind of wild. He and Pete Cosing knew a lot of people in common. but I think there was a real affection.
And Chuck of course, tremendous respect that he has made himself such a kind of - as I said, an evangelist for the cause of raising people's consciousness, not just politically but in terms of music history and pop culture. So there was tremendous respect, but there was a lot of fun. They were into joking each other and putting each other down. It was a real free-for-all.
CW: So was Maxwell Street saved, in the end?
ML: No, unfortunately now it is a - they were trying to just have a museum - but it's pretty much now part of this new University of Chicago complex. You could see right in the film, the last standing buildings, and now those don't stand. So Maxwell Street is done as a kind of blues centre. I know there is a movement to establish some kind of museum there, or something, and I'm not sure where that's at now.
CW: In South Michigan?
ML: The Chess building at 2120 South Michigan Avenue is there. That is a historic landmark, there is a small museum there; that's a fascinating place. So that's a kind of tourist centre and it's run by Willie Dixon's family, actually. And of course Willie Dixon was the man who said, 'The blues are the roots and everything else is the fruits.' So it's appropriate that his family would be kind of running that.
CW: So Marc, our national airline now run direct flights to Chicago out of Sydney, should we jump on a plane and come to Chicago - are there still things to see?
ML: I tell you, it still is a city that is so deeply rooted in the blues, I mean in terms of - you know club scene and you go out on a Friday night. There is still - and the blues festival, which I guess will be in June - you know it really is a special city, a magical city, and I've got to say, I was lucky to be able to be here early enough to get that assignment.
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http://www.abc.net.a...es/s1105962.htm
Godfathers And Sons: Chatting With Marc Levin
by Chris Winter
Chuck D, from Public Enemy
There's a quote by Willie Dixon about the blues; He says "The Blues are the roots; everything else is the fruits".
There's one film from the series which explores that idea directly, but from an angle which is logical but often overlooked. In a lot of ways hip-hop music is the most direct descendant of the blues - it's a black form (although whites like Eminem have been able to popularise it; remember the Stones anyone?), and hip hop tells stories - a lot of the time about what it's like to be down in a big country like America.
The film by Marc Levin called Godfathers And Sons is a fly-on-the-wall documentry where the camera follows Public Enemy's Chuck D and Marshall Chess (son of label owner Leonard Chess) as the pair go to Chicago to unite hip hop with the blues.
Chris Winter: Marc, welcome to the ABC. Welcome to DIG, which is the name of our online area where this is going to be heard. Just to kick off, a huge project, this PBS blues thing. How did you get involved?
Marc Levin: Well, I was there at the creation, because I've a good buddy, Raphael who's worked for Martin Scorsese for many years. And I brought him down here and he kind of hooked Alex Gibney, who's a partner of mine also as a series producer, up with Marty's company. Because I had heard that Marty was trying to do something on the blues and was having some trouble raising money for a TV series and Alex had done a number of TV series that I'd worked on. So I was there right at the inception and the whole thing was run out of my studio here in Manhattan.
CW: What, the whole series?
ML: The whole series, yes. I was one of the few directors that got to see everything, 'cause dubs were being made and cuts coming through, et cetera. So it was an interesting-you know, I got to see what everybody else was doing, which was fascinating.
CW: Is there anything special, Marc, about the timing-before we go on to the details-about the timing of this project, why now in particular, or is it something that's been in Martin Scorsese's mind for a long time?
ML: I think Marty and Charles Burnett had been trying for a few years to do something on the blues. Obviously Marty has been into the music, as all the directors have, but I think the success of the jazz series that Ken Burns had done, and just kind of the fortune of the right people coming together at the right time. I think all of those made it happen. I mean, it was long overdue.
CW: Yes, certainly. It occurs to me that there might be some-or there seems to be from this distance-a particular interest in black music at the moment in America amongst young people in particular. Is that the case, or am I imagining it?
ML: Well, if you consider hip-hop black music-which it is-rap, yeah. It's the youth culture, not only of America but of the world. Now part of the hip-hop culture is multicultural, you know, black, white, Latino, Asian, But certainly a whole new generation has created a new sound and my film was trying to find a connection between the blues of the '50s with today's sound. But yeah, the rap music and the hip-hop culture started right here-I'm looking out the window-started right up in Queens and the Bronx.
So yeah, that urban culture has become the youth culture of the world. What's interesting, though, is that many people, many young people that are part of that culture and love the music-contemporary music, rap music, hip-hop music, R&B-are not that aware of the roots of all of popular music. And that was why I think this series, it was a good time for it to come out; and why someone like Chuck D was a great character to have as part of it.
CW: He makes a very strong point of that, in fact, doesn't he, of bringing the younger people on board.
ML: He's an evangelist for kind of understanding your own cultural roots and your own history. I have to admit, I posed the question of what I was interested in, 'cause the music of Chicago, of Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Little Walter, Bo Diddley, Etta James, Koko Taylor-that sound, the Chess sound, is what blew my mind as a young teenager.
I was a teenager when I first heard in 1965 the Paul Butterfield album, the first one, which was really the first inter-racial band I ever heard, also. Black and whites playing together. And the first song on that record was 'Born in Chicago' and it kind of got me looking into the whole Chicago sound and then I discovered Muddy, Howlin' and all this and I realised, 'My God...' the Rolling Stones, the Beetles, Eric Clapton-everybody's covering Chess music here. And so it led me to the authentic sound, which really was the beginning of me just developing an independent kind of sensibility that wasn't just the mass consumer market top ten.
So today you've got kids discovering new music all the time, but to connect them that this is a process that has been happening-was really what the idea for Godfathers and Sons, and even the title-there was an album in '68 called Fathers and Sons, which Marshall Chess produced and that was Muddy Waters and Otis Spann the keyboard player with Paul Butterfield, Sam Lay on drums and Mike Bloomfield on guitar. So the rockers were kind of the sons and the fathers were the blues greats. And so I wanted to take it one more generation. Today's music, today's youth; what is their connection with their grandfathers that, using more of the street vernacular, the godfathers? So that's Godfathers and Sons.
CW: Marc before we get in to the film itself and the detail of now-just going back to Chess: why Chess, why was Chess so important?
ML: Well, because that sound, those names I just-in five or six years they made music that still reverberates around the world. They captured a moment. It was one of those rare, magical things where the black migrants from the South after World War Two had come to Chicago and all of a sudden the country blues was amplified and became urban and then became electric and became a whole new sound in Chicago.
And then you had these Jewish immigrants coming from Eastern Europe and they kind of crashed together in the south side of Chicago, living next to each other. And out of it the musical genius and talent of the African Americans and some of the business acumen of like the Chess family produced this indie label and this sound that has left an indelible mark. It did for me, just personally. It was kind of like ripping the veil off of sexuality and just a kind of raw reality. And obviously it had a profound effect on the rockers of our generation, and now maybe a new generation is going to discover that sound-just like a lot of hip-hop artists have gone back to soul music and funk music in the '70s; take one more step back. So it was a rare moment, and you had these giant talents.
CW: Was it an accident that Leonard Chess was the one who recorded all this-could it have been someone else?
ML: I think it's part-all of these things are part timing, which is destiny or fate; and part the individual talent and dedication of Muddy Waters; obviously a unique talent. It was the relationship between Muddy and Leonard which was unique. There's no doubt that that was an unusual collaboration and real partnership.
Obviously there've been people who have criticised not only the Chess family but all the record labels, you know, in exploiting black talent, and there's no doubt that happened. And still, Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry still don't take kindly to the Chess family. But there was a genuine respect and love, really, between Leonard and Muddy, and that was the foundation that that company was built on, and so something special did happen that did depend on those individuals, but it was a time, also, like you're saying-you know, look what happened with Elvis down in Memphis-you know, there were different places. Something was happening after the War: an energy and a new sound emerging that really changed the face of popular culture.
CW: Marc, just coming back to the Waters-Chess relationship; what is it about blacks and Jews? There's that great line in the film when you're talking about saving Maxwell Street and this guy comes up and says, 'Blacks plus Jews equals the Blues.'
ML: Well that was-you know, Blues and the Jews was the secret working title. I'm a Jewish American and I've done these three indie hip-hop films: Slam, White Boys and Brooklyn Babylon; and I've wondered about it myself. In fact the last of those films, Brooklyn Babylon is a kind of meditation on what is the relationship, going all the way back to the Song of Songs and the Song of Solomon and kind of the Rastafarian take and the Jewish orthodox take.
I think the key here, though, was that you had outsiders that both came in new to the great city of Chicago and you had the migrants that were coming from the South, which was a whole other country, really, into Chicago; and you had immigrants, not all of them Jewish; there were a lot of immigrants coming from Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean-and they were the outsiders. And they lived next to each other and they had the same ambitions, really, which was to become American, to become - to 'make it', to be part of it.
And somehow their energies... you know, there are historic elements of the Jewish story and of slavery and the Jewish exodus, of black culture, especially African-American culture, really Christian African-American culture is always related to that story, the Exodus story, go down Moses... But I think it was really the time that you really had this struggle to... and after World War Two a door opened in America. And who was going to get in. There was the door opening on racial opportunity, there was a door opening where Jews had been locked out before, that was opening, where other immigrants... So there was a huge, just karmic push in and people who saw that they could work together and had some common sympathies joined forces to get in that door.
CW: It sounds to me, Marc-a few years around about the time of Slam, one of your interviewers; possibly not critics but at least someone you were talking to, suggested (and I think these are your words) 'How come a middle-aged white guy from the sixties is making all these films about young black culture?' It sounds to me you might be a bit closer to an answer.
ML: Look, that's my search, I never planned it that way, and I sometimes do just kind of sit back and wonder. But it's fate, and it wasn't premeditated; but you know, when I go back, even when you're talking about the Paul Butterfield album - you know, the idea of blacks and whites - not just blacks and Jews-but blacks and whites meeting; to me, in my life, as a young kid, and I came of age in the sixties: the anti-war movement, the civil rights movement, the birth of rock and roll - all of that, and there was a mixing of cultures. And to me, that opened me up, and it opened my friends up. And that was something that just changed the way I looked at life and myself.
And then if you kind of examine the history of popular culture, you start to see that wherever these meetings of the different outsider cultures happen; the safe houses, the bohemian clubs, the underground scenes; whether it was jazz, whether it was blues, whether it was back in vaudeville - you realised that those were the avatars. That's where the new shit kind of was created. That's where the alchemy happened.
That's the magic, that's the great - in other words, the wound in American culture and the American psyche is of course race. We fought a civil war over it, we're still struggling with it. But the other side of that is that there were always places where black and white would meet. Sometimes clandestinely, covertly, evading the officials. But it was out of that that something unique happened. So that's something that I feel lucky that I touched in my own way. But if you examine American culture I think you see that's a through-line.
CW: It's interesting, I was thinking about how things remain the same in many respects. One of the people writing about you remarked that younger white Americans now believe that rap was invented by Eminem, and are completely unaware of what went before. And exactly the same happened in the period you're talking about. I grew up then too, and we all thought it was the Rolling Stones or, pick another white artist, who'd invented it all, and little did we know...
ML: It's true, it's true... look, I admit that, and the point is not to feel guilt-tripped about it, it's to be open to learn how it really happened. And there are kids who probably think Eminem invented rap, but the challenge is, are they going to, as they grow and as they listen, are they going to realise how this thing really started? As Chuck D jokes in the film, there are people who don't even remember who Public Enemy was, you know, that's like old school.
So it's how to make - look, the thing about this film that I think in the end really was a surprise for me, and packed an emotional kind of wallop that none of us expected, was that Marshall's relationship with his father was obviously strained. His father was a workaholic and Marshall was pretty up-front about talking about how he always longed to be close to his father.
And in a way, that longing, and kind of the emotion of it, is an underpinning, in that all of us need to be connected to our roots in some way. We can't become where we're going and we can't fully realise our potential unless we have some connection with how we got here. And in our culture especially, I don't know how it is in Australia, but we are so present and future oriented that the past is, you know, thirty days ago. And not that you need history lessons - I think, or educational seminars - but I think that one of the things that was so unique about this series is because seven directors were allowed to pursue their own passion and cover the whole arc of the story of the blues from Africa to the Delta on up the Mississippi to Chicago, all the way over to Europe and back-so that at least the arc was covered but each director was allowed to find their own passion.
And that makes it-I've never seen a series like that. It's very unique. The disadvantage might be, okay, it's not encyclopaedic, but the advantage is it's alive. It's full of a passion. And it's not just a history lesson. You feel this is reverberating right now, right here. And that's, I think, a very valuable thing.
CW: Did Scorsese influence you at all in how you approached your story, or the story you chose; or did he leave that entirely to all of you to work out for yourselves?
ML: I think he was pretty - his comments were more, when he saw stuff; what he loved, what he wasn't clear about - were more notes. It wasn't as much the shaping of the passion. He pretty much gave us all licence to find your passion, find your way in. It was more to give us feedback on how it was reading, what was working, what wasn't working; that kind of stuff.
CW: And for you it finally came together when Chuck D sent an email to Marshall Chess and he got on to you and suddenly there was the story.
ML: That's true. And it's one of the things about documentaries that is so exciting. And there's really nothing like that. It's accidents; it's fate.
In other words, I knew in my head areas I wanted to explore, but how are you going to do it, and how are you going to do it in an interesting and kind of original way? And out of the blue, it's true that Chuck D had read that book Spinning Blues Into Gold on the Chess family and he was moved by it.
And he just wrote a note to Marshall. He didn't know Marshall, but he knew who Marshall was and he wrote him a note, saying how that book had influenced him and how he had heard a rumour that Marshall was doing something on trying to connect blues guys and hip-hop guys and he was interested, and reaching out.
And that was it. I saw that - I was, it was like, 'Oh my goodness, I couldn't ask for more. Here we go, the story begins.' And, there was a genuine chemistry between Marshall and Chuck. That was real, that was not staged. They had their arguments and they were pretty up-front with each other, but I think they really did like each other.
CW: It's ironic in a way that-going back to Chuck D's roots-that he nominates an album which at the time in the sixties was not very well received, at least by the critics; The Electric Mud album.
ML: Oh, that is a crack-up. That he - and I want you to know, when some of the blues purists heard rumour of what was kind of percolating, that Marshall and Chuck had hooked up and then that Chuck wanted to find the people, some of the musicians that had done Electric Mud - 'cause that's the album that got him into Muddy Waters - they were apoplectic. They were like, there were emails to headquarters here, and Alex, the series producer, he was getting it from all sides: 'That's the worst album that's ever been made-what, are you guys out of your mind?'
So that was risky, but that was their call, not mine. And I went along, and certainly the musicians who were part of Electric Mud were an extraordinary group of guys. Sometimes people tell you, especially doing a film project like this, that musicians are great to get to perform, but don't interview them or talk to them, because sometimes they don't make too much sense. And these guys certainly disproved that notion: eloquent, articulate characters.
CW: That was a fascinating session that you depict in the film. I was just thinking of some of the side chat, the criticism that Electric Mud attracted. In what, 35 years, it obviously still rankles with some of those guys.
ML: Absolutely.
CW: How did that session go, Marc, in the end. I notice that there was no result of it on the CDs that were released from the series.
ML: It's on the CD of Godfathers and Sons, yes. There are so many CDs associated with this series; there's like, I think, 24 of them. But there is a CD for each film, you know, a soundtrack for each film. So the soundtrack for Godfathers and Sons, the second-to-last song, is the 'ElectriK Mud Katz' reunion.
For me, that was just-I've got to confess, I probably fantasised about being a musician when I was younger, because I always saw music as the purest form of kind of marrying discipline and practice and knowledge with spontaneity, improvisation-and the way it affected an audience. So it was a model, and in many ways I think that I've always tried to make movies in my own way, and certainly Slam was an example, kind of using music as a model. Because making movies can be very hierarchical, very military, very corporate. And sometimes you almost are envious of musicians who can just get together and make something magic happen. So for me to be in the studio with these guys when it was happening, this was a high point for me; just in terms of-I felt like a little kid again.
CW: Well certainly the impression one gets from the film is that Chuck D and Common and Marshall himself of course, and I'm guessing you too, were overwhelmed, almost, by working in the company of Phil Upchurch, et cetera, et cetera. How did they all feel about people like Chuck D and Common - that remarkable scene where they're kind of picking away at their guitars and in the background is the scratch DJ and so on going on - what did they think of all that?
ML: They thought, you know, it's about time that you hip-hop kids, you rappers, woke up and realised we're your godfathers. We want to be part of the family. We don't want to be locked out in the senior centre and told, you know, there's a new music now that's got nothing to do with what came before. And of course with Common, it was crazy, because it ended up that they kind of knew people and had common friends and relatives, because Common is from the south side of Chicago so that was kind of wild. He and Pete Cosing knew a lot of people in common. but I think there was a real affection.
And Chuck of course, tremendous respect that he has made himself such a kind of - as I said, an evangelist for the cause of raising people's consciousness, not just politically but in terms of music history and pop culture. So there was tremendous respect, but there was a lot of fun. They were into joking each other and putting each other down. It was a real free-for-all.
CW: So was Maxwell Street saved, in the end?
ML: No, unfortunately now it is a - they were trying to just have a museum - but it's pretty much now part of this new University of Chicago complex. You could see right in the film, the last standing buildings, and now those don't stand. So Maxwell Street is done as a kind of blues centre. I know there is a movement to establish some kind of museum there, or something, and I'm not sure where that's at now.
CW: In South Michigan?
ML: The Chess building at 2120 South Michigan Avenue is there. That is a historic landmark, there is a small museum there; that's a fascinating place. So that's a kind of tourist centre and it's run by Willie Dixon's family, actually. And of course Willie Dixon was the man who said, 'The blues are the roots and everything else is the fruits.' So it's appropriate that his family would be kind of running that.
CW: So Marc, our national airline now run direct flights to Chicago out of Sydney, should we jump on a plane and come to Chicago - are there still things to see?
ML: I tell you, it still is a city that is so deeply rooted in the blues, I mean in terms of - you know club scene and you go out on a Friday night. There is still - and the blues festival, which I guess will be in June - you know it really is a special city, a magical city, and I've got to say, I was lucky to be able to be here early enough to get that assignment.
