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ÄŚitalaÄŤki klub, 2 - Ostin: Gordost i predrasuda


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#1 maxivida

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 10:04

Kompletan tekst Pride and Prejudice online (u originalu)

Par reči o romanu, pre nego što počnemo s čitanjem...

Jane Austen lived in a world that was disappearing around her as she wrote about it. Pride and Prejudice chronicles a world that seems far removed from the realities of its age. The novel was published in 1813, at the height of the Napoleonic Wars, when revolutionary fervor and Romanticism gripped Europe. Austen’s novel features none of this. A number of commentators have pointed out that the world of polite drawing room conversation, motive-ridden innuendo, and wit was an anachronism even in Austen’s time. For all its backward glances to an age of social refinement, grace and station, Pride and Prejudice gives us an important insight into a world that is far from trivial, a world that is desperately in search of certainty.

Austen’s manuscript was originally titled “First Impressions,” but when another, less successful novel of that title appeared eight years before the publication of Pride and Prejudice, Austen changed the name of the work. Whatever title, the assertion that Austen continually examines throughout the novel is the question of how one forms opinions about other people, and how those opinions shape the direction of one’s life. With a nod to the skepticism of the eighteenth century English philosopher, David Hume, Austen asks her characters and her readers to trust neither initial impressions nor what the imagination does with those assumptions.




I naravno, koja reč o našoj autorki... :lol:

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Jane Austen was a major English novelist, whose brilliantly witty, elegantly structured satirical fiction marks the transition in English literature from 18th century neo-classicism to 19th century romanticism.

Jane Austen was born on 16 December, 1775, at the rectory in the village of Steventon, near Basingstoke, in Hampshire. The seventh of eight children of the Reverend George Austen and his wife, Cassandra, she was educated mainly at home and never lived apart from her family. She had a happy childhood amongst all her brothers and the other boys who lodged with the family and whom Mr Austen tutored. From her older sister, Cassandra, she was inseparable. To amuse themselves, the children wrote and performed plays and charades, and even as a little girl Jane was encouraged to write. The reading that she did of the books in her father's extensive library provided material for the short satirical sketches she wrote as a girl.

At the age of 14 she wrote her first novel, Love and Freindship (sic) and then A History of England by a partial, prejudiced and ignorant Historian, together with other very amusing juvenilia. In her early twenties Jane Austen wrote the novels that were later to be re-worked and published as Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice and Northanger Abbey. She also began a novel called The Watsons which was never completed.

As a young woman Jane enjoyed dancing (an activity which features frequently in her novels) and she attended balls in many of the great houses of the neighbourhood. She loved the country, enjoyed long country walks, and had many Hampshire friends. It therefore came as a considerable shock when her parents suddenly announced in 1801 that the family would be moving away to Bath. Mr Austen gave the Steventon living to his son James and retired to Bath with his wife and two daughters. The next four years were difficult ones for Jane Austen. She disliked the confines of a busy town and missed her Steventon life. After her father's death in 1805, his widow and daughters also suffered financial difficulties and were forced to rely on the charity of the Austen sons. It was also at this time that, while on holiday in the West country, Jane fell in love, and when the young man died, she was deeply upset. Later she accepted a proposal of marriage from Harris Bigg-Wither, a wealthy landowner and brother to some of her closest friends, but she changed her mind the next morning and was greatly upset by the whole episode.

After the death of Mr Austen, the Austen ladies moved to Southampton to share the home of Jane's naval brother Frank and his wife Mary. There were occasional visits to London, where Jane stayed with her favourite brother Henry, at that time a prosperous banker, and where she enjoyed visits to the theatre and art exhibitions. However, she wrote little in Bath and nothing at all in Southampton.

Then, in July, 1809, on her brother Edward offering his mother and sisters a permanent home on his Chawton estate, the Austen ladies moved back to their beloved Hampshire countryside. It was a small but comfortable house, with a pretty garden, and most importantly it provided the settled home which Jane Austen needed in order to write. In the seven and a half years that she lived in this house, she revised Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice and published them ( in 1811 and 1813) and then embarked on a period of intense productivity. Mansfield Park came out in 1814, followed by Emma in 1816 and she completed Persuasion (which was published together with Northanger Abbey in 1818, the year after her death). None of the books published in her life-time had her name on them — they were described as being written "By a Lady". In the winter of 1816 she started Sanditon, but illness prevented its completion.

Jane Austen had contracted Addisons Disease, a tubercular disease of the kidneys. No longer able to walk far, she used to drive out in a little donkey carriage which can still be seen at the Jane Austen Museum at Chawton. By May 1817 she was so ill that she and Cassandra, to be near Jane's physician, rented rooms in Winchester. Tragically, there was then no cure and Jane Austen died in her sister's arms in the early hours of 18 July, 1817. She was 41 years old. She is buried in Winchester Cathedral.

Susannah Fullerton



Linkovi:

Džejn Ostin Centar u Batu
Sajt pokrajine Hemšir posvećen Dž. Ostin
Spomen-kuća Džejn Ostin, Chawton

Toplo preporučujem i maestralnu BBC ekranizaciju na DVD-formatu. Mini-serija Pride and Prejudice je svojevremeno prikazivana i kod nas na televiziji.

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#2 brisko

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 17:37

Kupio sam danas Gordost u knjižari Narodne knjige u ulici Nikole Spasića(mala ulica odmah iz Knez Minajlove).Cena je bila 272 dinara,videćemo ovih dana vredi li čemu??? B)

#3 hristodulo

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 22:40

idem odmah sutra da kupim :lol:

za maxividu ili moderatora, topic bi trebalo da se zove:

Čitalački klub, 2: Ostin - Gordost i predrasuda

edit: znam da maxivida ne moze da edituje naslov, zato MODERATORE, imamo dve molbe. prva je vec napisana gore (3 -> 2), a druga je: VRATITE DELETE DUGME :lol:

Edited by hristodulo, 06 September 2004 - 22:48.


#4 chandra

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 22:48

Ako je izdanje Narodne knjige, obratite paznju na to ko je preveo i kako je preveo...

#5 brisko

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 10:45

I u Platou(340 din) i u knjižari Narodne knjige(272 din) koju sam juče pomenuo prodaje se baš samo to izdanje Narodne knjige.Prevod je uradio Živojin Simić, nisam još ni otvorio da vidim kako mi se čini prevod, ali računam da neće biti tako loš pošto je Simić(verovatno je već i pokojni) jedan od nekada poznatijih domaćih stručnjaka za engleski jezik.Moguće je i da će prevod zvučati malo arhaično,ali to me mnogo manje plaši od naknadnih intervencija koje na prevodima rade loši lektori.
Ma, šta sad tupim, nadam se da prevod nije loš. B)

Edited by brisko, 07 September 2004 - 10:46.


#6 houyhnhnm

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 16:48

Ako je izdanje Narodne knjige, obratite paznju na to ko je preveo i kako je preveo...


uf opet taj cuveni poklic. :lol:

simicev prevod nije los. nije savrsen ali nije ni bzvz.

B)

#7 Goranz

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 16:56

Kod ulicnog prodavca u Carice Milice mozete naci komplet Dzejn Ostin,6 knjiga za 1350 dinara,bar po njegovom advertisingu...

#8 alternativa

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 12:47

Ma to nije knjiga! To je moja "Biblija" :lol:
Prvi put sam je procitala sa 11 godina (hvala mama :lol:) i ostala totalno zanesena. Dok su drugi klinci, takodje u pubertetu, u svojim mislima "ziveli" u Beverly Hils-u, ja sam bila Elisabeth Bennet :lol:

Nakon toga sam je procitala na engleskom, pa i na nemackom (cisto da vidim kako su je preveli) i tako...Svaki put kad sam neraspolozena ili tuzna, citam tu knjigu... Znam, znam, evo i stidim se :lol:

Postoji jedan divan site, prevenstveno vezan za Pride and Prejudice, ali i za sva ostala dela Jane Austin
http://www.pemberley.com/

naravno, tu se mogu naci sva njena dela (mogu se isprintati), kao i pisma prijateljima i rodbini itd.

Culi ste da se radi na Bolywood (da li sam dobro napisala?) verziji filma Pride and Prejudice? :lol:

#9 alternativa

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 13:02

Zaboravila sam da napomenem jednu zanimljivu stvar.
Moja baka ima prevod te knjige iz 1933. godine u kojoj su imena glavnih likova prevedena na srpski, pa se Elisabeth tako zove Jelisaveta. Sad ne mogu da se setim kako bi Jane, ali mislim Janja :lol:

#10 autsajder

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 09:07

Evo je:

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Kad sam vidio sliku bilo je :lol: Onda su me malo rastuzili katastrofalni kvalitet koristenog papira, koji je mjestimicno prljavo siv i bolesno zut, providan, hrapav, potom nacin na koji je knjiga ulijepljena (dalceda izdrzi barem jedno citanje, vidjecemo) i mikroskopski cirilicni font.. Pocinjem danas sutra, cujemo se..

Edited by autsajder, 16 September 2004 - 09:09.


#11 lessa

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 09:23

Ja vec pocela (istina jako malo, 10 poglavlja, ima previse posla pa ne stizem).

Citam u originalu (tj. sa sajta, fala maxividi i alternativi, pa copy/paste, pa smanji font, prosiri margine da ne trosim bas previse papira) te uzivam i u engleskom, mada sam morala par puta da posegnem za recnikom ali to nije pomoglo jer ima bas nekih, sasvim ocekivano, staromodnijih konstrukcija ali nije strasno.

Ne mogu sada mnogo da kazem, ali mi se dopada to sto se likovi predstavljaju uglavnom kroz ono sto govore (nema toliko sta ko misli u svojoj glavi itd.). I tu mi je omiljeni tata Bennet. Jako malo govori ali na osnovu tih nekoliko opaski moze se razumeti i njegov odnos prema svojoj zeni i cerkama (nije mu lako samom sa 6 zena), udavacama i provodadzisanju. Cinizam vrca na sve strane.

#12 hristodulo

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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:50

to mi reci! sam sa 6 zena... to bih i ja..! mada mi ni sa ovom prvom nije lako :lol:

procitao sam, evo, i ja jedno desetak poglavlja... od sesdesetak mogucih... za sada je limunada... liz i darsi su jedini interesantni likovi... pretpostavljam da ce njihova "veza" biti u centru paznje do kraja romana...

ipak, drugarica koja zivi u manchesteru, dakle koja je senzibilisana za tu englesku atmosferu, i koja je procitala ovaj roman tridesetak puta (uglavnom kad je bila bolesna, kako sama kaze), mi je rekla da je taj "samo da se udamo" fazon, ustvari, totalno ironican...

videcemo... :lol:

Edited by hristodulo, 17 September 2004 - 04:32.


#13 autsajder

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Posted 18 September 2004 - 13:40

Recimo da me nikad nisu privlacila arhaicna stiva iz bilo koje knjizevnosti, pa tako ni iz britanske. Nisam odmakao odvec daleko u citanju, ali vec mogu da zakljucim da mi nisu narocito interesantne teme provodadzisanja, nepomicnog salonskog spletkarenja, sadrzaji zenskog cavrljanja s pocetka 19. vijeka, da mi ne odgovara pripovjedacki postupak u kome se dogadjaji smjenjuju ludom brzinom, likovi koji u trenu mijenjaju raspolozenja ili, avaj, od spisateljice zaradjuju oprecne karakterne etikete u razmaku od cetiri recenice. Knjiga mi, nazalost, ne drzi paznju, pa mi je potrebna prisilna doza koncentracije da pohvatam niti zamrsenih dijaloga gospodjice B. sa gospodjicom B., njenom mladjom (ali ne najmladjom) sestrom i njihovim ukocenim udvaracima..

Ima ona scena pri pocetku u kojoj Darsi, Bingli i Elizabet razmjeravaju kakvocu Binglijevog nastupa prema damama povodom njegove izjave da bi mogao da napusti svoje novo imanje "u roku od pet minuta". :lol: Te prijateljske zajedljive opaske ni o cemu u jednom krajnje ustogljenom razgovornom maniru, sav taj prizor, sve to meni izgleda krajnje izvjestaceno, cak toliko da mi pomalo izmice ta, kako kazu, ironicna poenta. Valjda su kriterijumi tada bili drugaciji, sta znam..

Za sada mi je najinteresantniji gospodin Benet sa svojim toplim ocinskim upadicama tipa, parafraziram, "Ako nam se kcerka teze razboli, ili umre...", "Ja sad vidim da si ti najgluplja djevojka u kraju" i sl. :lol: Steta sto on, barem za sada, ne dobija vise prostora u ovoj prici. Mladi Bingli mi je veoma dosadan sa svojim tvrdoglavim insistiranjem na dzentlemenskoj obavezi da se u odgovarajucem trenutku konverzacije moze i mora reci samo jedna stvar i nijedna druga, samo da bi se zadovoljila bezbojna razgovorna forma. Miss Bingley je ljubomorna vjestica, OK i to sam shvatio.

Pretpostavljam da autorka racuna na pridobijanje citaocevih simpatija prema Dzejni, Elizabeti (ah, jadna ona, koja je prepjesacila pet milja po blatu da bi vidjela bolesnu sestricu, a zauzvrat zaradila prezir i ogovaranje iza ledja) i tom smekeru Darsiju, ali u meni tek treba da kresne neka iskra zainteresovanosti za sudbine ovih likova, tj. blagonaklonosti prema njihovim klaustrofobicnim avanturama.

Edited by autsajder, 18 September 2004 - 17:31.


#14 maxivida

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Posted 18 September 2004 - 19:29

:lol: Oh dear...

That bad, eh? :lol:

Sačekaću još nekih nedelju dana pre nego što se uključim u diskusiju, čekam da još poneko pročita knjigu.

Vama, gospodo, a word of advice: teško da postoji veća razlika u Weltanschauungu do one između vizure engleske usedelice s početka 19. veka i eligible bachelor :lol: Balkanca u ranim tridesetim, na početku 21. veka. Dosadašnje opservacije su vam prilično površne (nothing personal, stating the obvious). Naravno da ne očekujem da će neko, kome su tematika, karakterizacija i "klaustrofobične avanture" do te mere strani da mora da se nasilno koncentriše da bi pohvatao sve nijanse fabule, na kraju biti ubeđen da je P&P, u stvari, beskrajno zabavno i istovremeno mudro delo. Samo preporučujem da pokušate da sagledate ono opšte, univerzalno i bezvremeno ispod konvencija salonske konverzacije od pre dvesta godina. Ako vam ne pođe za rukom, latite se Dnevnika Bridžet Džons, bićete prosvetljeni... :lol:

Edit: Pažljivo s pohvalama g. Benetu. Sigurna sam da ne biste želeli da se pretvorite u takvog oca. :lol:

Edited by maxivida, 18 September 2004 - 19:31.


#15 autsajder

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Posted 19 September 2004 - 12:34

Dosadašnje opservacije su vam prilično površne (nothing personal, stating the obvious).

Ah, pa povrsnost je opsta karakteristika mog forumskog nastupa, uopste ne moras da ublazavas to precizno opazanje, barem kad je o meni rijec. Ne tvrdim da sam kadar da osmislim i sastavim dublju analizu ovog djela, ali okolnosti u kojima ja tipkam ne dozvoljavaju mi ni da pokusam, if you know (and you know) what I mean. :lol:

Ako vam ne pođe za rukom, latite se Dnevnika Bridžet Džons, bićete prosvetljeni...

E ovo vec boli :lol:. Citao sam ja Bridzetku (i njenog suvremenika Hornbija i jos neke ugledne pisce naseg doba) kad mi je vrijeme bilo - u vojski, na nocnim dezurstvima, tokom bezbrojnih sati besmislenog camenja iza bodljikave zice, minskih polja i betonskih zidova armijskih kasarni i borbenih poligona. Na tim mjestima je ovakva knjizevnost imala dejstvo blagotvornog dusevnog melema. :lol:

Samo preporučujem da pokušate da sagledate ono opšte, univerzalno i bezvremeno ispod konvencija salonske konverzacije od pre dvesta godina.

To se podrazumijeva. Mene krase strpljenje i upornost japanskog nindze.

Pažljivo s pohvalama g. Benetu. Sigurna sam da ne biste želeli da se pretvorite u takvog oca.

A ovo obecava. Mislim, sto se samog romana tice, posto ja uopste ne planiram da se pretvorim. :lol: ali to je neka druga prica..

Vama, gospodo, a word of advice: teško da postoji veća razlika u Weltanschauungu do one između vizure engleske usedelice s početka 19. veka i eligible bachelor  Balkanca u ranim tridesetim, na početku 21. veka.

Tek sad vidim, savjet je, ipak, upucen samo Hristodulu. B)


edit: pardonirajte offtopicnotrollovski duh ovog posta, barem je na dnu strane.

Edited by autsajder, 19 September 2004 - 14:45.